Edible Education 101: Transparency in the Food System with Michael Pollan and Raj Patel Video Lecture | Edible Education: Understand Food & its production - Personal Skills

- GOOD EVENING WELCOME TO EDIBLE
EDUCATION 101 MARCH 8TH.
WE ARE PAST THE HALFWAY POINT OF
THE CLASS.
WE HAVE A TEAM FROM BERKELEY
FOOD INSTITUTE IN THE BACK.
THEY ARE MAKING A LITTLE VIDEO.
YOU CAN APPLAUD.
THEY ARE MAKING A VIDEO FOR ALL
OF THE IN COMING UNDER GRADUATES
TO EXPLAIN SOME OF THE
OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE UNIQUELY
BERKELEY ON CAMPUS FOR PEOPLE
WITH DIVERSE INTERESTS TO GET
INVOLVED IN THE FOOD MOVEMENT
AND FOOD SYSTEM AND FOOD
EDUCATION STREAM HERE AT THE
UNIVERSITY.
THIS IS A TECHNOLOGY SCREEN FREE
CLASS.
WE ARE CELEBRATING INTERNATIONAL
WOMEN'S DAY TODAY.
THERE'S A LOT TO CELEBRATE.
ONE OF OUR GUESTS SARU JAYARAMAN
HAS BEEN IN THE NEWS TODAY
LEADING IMPORTANT ACTIVITIES
TODAY.
I AM HOPING THAT OUR GUEST RAJ
PATEL MIGHT TALK TO US ABOUT
SOME OF THE INSIGHTS AND WHAT HE
LEARNED WORKING WITH WOMEN AND
FAMILIES IN MALAWI A LITTLE
LATER.
THERE'S AN INTERESTING FEATURE
IN MODERN FARMER IF YOU WANT TO
CHECK IT OUT ABOUT WOMEN WHO ARE
FEEDING THE WORLD.
THAT'S WHERE THIS PHOTOGRAPH
COMES FROM.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO CHECK
THAT OUT THIS WEEK.
ALSO THIS WEEK, A BIG WIN FOR
LITTLE FOODS THIS IS TWO
BERKELEY GRADUATES WHO FOUNDED A
COMPANY CALLED "BACK TO THE
ROOTS."
THEY HAVE BEEN GUESTS IN THIS
CLASS IN THE PAST.
THEY HAD A BIG WIN THIS WEEK.
THEY UNSEEDED KELLOGG'S WITH A
GIGANTIC CONTRACT FOR SERVING
BREAKFAST IN THE NEW YORK PUBLIC
SCHOOL DISTRICT.
(APPLAUSE)
HOW ABOUT THAT FOR BERKELEY LED
INNOVATION?
IT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE THE
NEW YORK TIMES DID A WHOLE
FEATURE ON THEM AND THEY TALKED
SORT OF ABOUT LITTLE FOOD AND
BIG FOOD TAKING FROM MICHAEL
POLLAN'S FRAMING.
THEY CALLED KASHI BIG FOOD NOW,
BECAUSE THEY ARE OWNED BY
KELLOGG'S.
HOW MANY PEOPLE KNEW THAT?
LET'S DO ATTENDANCE REAL QUICK.
I AM GOING TO DO THREE QUESTIONS
THIS WEEK.
I'M DOING THREE QUESTIONS.
REMEMBER I TOLD YOU THAT I AM
WANTING TO KIND OF TRACK OUR
PROGRESS THIS SEMESTER.
IN THE -- THE CLICKER IS ON.
WE ARE GOING TO DO THREE
QUESTIONS IN RAPID SUCCESSION.
BE READY IN THE PAST WEEK I ATE
MY MEALS WITH FRIENDS OR FAMILY
A, MORE THAN 10 TIMES.
B, 5 TO 10 TIMES.
C, LESS THAN FIVE TIMES.
D, NONE AT ALL, SADLY.
HOW DID YOU DO IN TERMS OF YOUR
COMMUNITY EATING THIS WEEK?
HOW DID WE DO?
YOU HAVE TO SWITCH THE --
PRETTY GOOD.
5-10 TIMES FOR THE MAJORITY.
NOT BAD.
WHO WERE THE SAD PEOPLE?
- NEXT QUESTION, DID YOU EAT
ENOUGH FIBER THIS WEEK.
DID YOU SEE THE NEW NIH STUDY
SAYING THERE ARE OUTSTANDING
OCCURRENCES OF COLO-RECTAL
CANCER IN YOUNG PEOPLE?
SURPRISED EVERYONE PEOPLE WHO
WERE TOO YOUNG TO TRADITIONALLY
GET THIS FORM OF CANCER, AND
IT'S A LITTLE BIT INEXPLICABLE,
BUT AS YOU HEARD FROM OUR GUESTS
WHO TALKED ABOUT THE MICROBIOME
A FEW WEEKS AGO IT SOUNDS LIKE
FIBER IS VERY MUCH THE MAGIC
INGREDIENT.
HOW DID WE DO ON THIS ONE?
OOPS.
- I LOVE HOW YOU GUYS ALWAYS
CHANGE YOUR ANSWER TO THIS ONE.
OKAY.
ONE MORE QUICK ONE.
WHICH OF THESE IS THE MOST
IMPORTANT FACTOR IN THE FOOD
SYSTEM.
A, LABOR.
B, NATURE.
C, CARE.
D, FINANCE.
E, ALL OF THE ABOVE.
YOU WOULD HAVE GLEANED THE
ANSWER TO THIS IN THE ARTICLE
ABOUT -- IN THE PAPER ABOUT
SUGAR ON THE ISLAND OF MADEIRA.
IS THAT ACCEPTABLE, RAJ?
YOU LIKE THAT ANSWER?
ONE MORE.
HOW ABOUT THIS.
A BONUS QUESTION.
IF YOU COULD HAVE A SUMMER
INTERNSHIP AT ONE OF LAST WEEK'S
EARLY STAGE VENTURES WOULD IT BE
A, BYTE FOODS, B, NOM, C,
IMPOSSIBLE FOODS, D,
SCIO-CONSUMER PHYSICS OR
SWEETGREEN?
WHERE DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A
SUMMER INTERNSHIP?
IMPOSSIBLE FOODS AND SWEETGREENS
AND SCIO.
WE WILL SEND THAT IN FOR YOU.
GET THAT SET UP.
THIS WEEK THERE'S AN OLD
PHILOSOPHICAL RELIGIOUS QUESTION
ABOUT WHY IS TONIGHT DIFFERENT
FROM ANY OTHER NIGHT?
TONIGHT WE ACTUALLY HAVE THREE
OF THE ABSOLUTE PROGENITORS OF
BOTH THIS CLASS, EDIBLE
EDUCATION 101 AND THE FOOD
MOVEMENT ALL IN ONE ROOM.
WE HAVE THE ROOT STOCK, THE
SOURCE CODE WITH US LIVE
TONIGHT.
OF COURSE ALICE WATERS.
BY THE WAY, IS ROXY HERE
TONIGHT?
WHERE ARE YOU?
ROXY?
WE STARTED TO READ THE PAPERS
THIS WEEK.
I GOT TO READ A FEW OF THEM, AND
YOURS WAS EXTRAORDINARY, AND
JUST AS A THANK YOU FOR WRITING
WHAT YOU DID, I WANT TO MAKE
SURE YOU MEET ALICE TONIGHT.
SHE REALLY WANTS TO TALK TO YOU
AFTER CLASS.
BE SURE TO COME DOWN AND TALK TO
ALICE.
YEAH.
YEAH.
(APPLAUSE)
SO, WE ARE REALLY DELIGHTED TO
HAVE MICHAEL POLLAN AND RAJ
PATEL HERE TONIGHT.
MICHAEL AND RAJ TAUGHT THIS
CLASS TOGETHER IN 2014.
ASIDE FROM BEING AWARD WINNING
WRITERS AND TEACHERS AND
FILMMAKERS AND PROJECT LEADERS
THEY ARE TWO OF THE MOST
INSPIRING PEOPLE TO BE AROUND.
WE ARE GOING TO LET THEM TALK TO
YOU ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE THINKING
TONIGHT.
GOING TO TRY TO FACILITATE THAT
A LITTLE BIT AND GET LOTS OF
QUESTIONS FROM YOU.
WITHOUT FUR TOUR ADIEU PLEASE
WELCOME MICHAEL POLLAN AND RAJ
PATEL.
RAJ AND MICHAEL HAD THE
OPPORTUNITY TO SUGGEST SOME
READING FOR US.
MICHAEL HAD SENT OVER THE POWER
SPHERE -- SPHERE POWER.
- POWER SPHERE.
- 532.
- 534, YES.
- AND RAJ SENT OVER THE MADEIRA
CASE OR ARTICLE.
ARE YOU WORKING WITH JASON ON A
BOOK RIGHT NOW?
- JASON MOORE AND I HAVE JUST
SUBMITTED TO THE UNIVERSITY OF
CALIFORNIA FOREIGN PRESS A BOOK
CALLED "THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD
IN SEVEN CHEAP THINGS."
MANY OF THE IDEAS THAT WE USE TO
EXPLAIN HOW THE WORLD WORKS
TODAY WERE CONCEIVED AND
EXECUTED ON MADEIRA.
THAT'S WHY THAT PARTICULAR
ARTICLE WOULD BE ONE THAT IS
WORTH SHARING.
IF WE ARE INTERESTED IN
TRANSPARENCY, THE THEME OF TODAY
IS BROUGHT TO US THE IDEA OF
TRANSPARENCY.
A LOT OF WHAT THE MODERN FOOD
SYSTEM IS HAS BEEN RENDERED
OPAQUE.
THE STORY OF MADEIRA IS A WAY OF
RETELLING THAT STORY IN A WAY
THAT BRINGS TO THE SURFACE A LOT
OF THINGS ABOUT THE BALTIC FOOD
SYSTEM.
- A LOT OF IT AROUND SOCIO
ECOLOGICAL.
WE HEAR SOCIOECONOMICS, BUT
THINKING ABOUT NATURE'S GIFTS
AND REALLY NATURE'S SERVICES AS
BEING INTEGRAL.
- THE STORY OF MADEIRA IS SO
STRANGE FOR ME.
SUGAR IS SO RARE IN THE 1200'S.
ONE OF THE FOOD STUDIES -- HAS
ANY ONE READ "SWEETNESS AND
POWER."
SWEET JESUS.
ALL OF YOU NEED TO READ IT.
IT IS SUCH A MAGNIFICENT BOOK.
IT IS A STORY ABOUT THE ORIGINS
OF SUGAR.
THERE'S A QUOTE IN IT FROM HENRY
THE SECOND WHO ASKS FOR TWO
POUNDS OF SUGAR, IF SO MUCH CAN
BE HAD AT ONE TIME.
IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE IN 1250 TO
HAVE -- THE KING OF ENGLAND TO
IMAGINE MORE THAN 2 POUNDS OF
SUGAR.
THERE'S A READY MARKET FOR
SUGAR.
THE PORTUGUESE, WHAT THEY DO IS
FIND AN ISLAND, MADEIRA.
DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHAT MADEIRA
MEANS IN PORTUGUESE?
WOOD.
THEY FIND THIS AMAZING ISLAND.
THEY CHOP DOWN THE TREES.
THEY USE THE TREES, INDIGENOUS
PEOPLE TO START OFF WITH AND
THEN AFRICAN SLAVES TO TURN THE
TREES INTO THESE HYDROLOGICAL
CHANNELS TO BE ABLE TO GROW
SUGAR CANE.
YOU HAVE SLAVERY AND THE
TRANSFORMATION OF NATURE, YOU
HAVE FINANCE THAT COMES FROM
GENOA INVOLVING CHRISTOPHER
COLUMBUS, ONE OF THE GREAT
VILLAINS OF HISTORY.
YOU HAVE THE MODERN CIRCUITS OF
CAPITALISM APPEARING ON THIS
ISLAND.
WITHIN 50 YEARS THE ISLAND OF
WOOD IS BURNED TO THE GROUND.
THE EUROPEANS EAT THE SUGAR AND
THE SUGAR EATS THE ISLANDS.
IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THE
MODERN FOOD SYSTEM,
TRANSPARENCY, HERE'S THE PLACE
TO SEE WHERE IT ALL STARTS.
HERE'S A PLACE TO SEE HOW THE
MODERN FOOD SYSTEM DEPENDS ON
ENERGY.
MICHAEL HAS WRITTEN SO
BEAUTIFULLY ABOUT THIS, THE
VITAL ROLE THAT FOSSIL FUEL
PLAYS.
BEFORE FOSSIL FUELS THERE WERE
TREES.
TREES WERE A VITAL SOURCE OF
ENERGY FOR SUGAR PROCESSING.
YOU NEED SLAVE LABOR, YOU NEED
FINANCE, YOU NEED GOVERNMENTS TO
COME AND PROSECUTE AND CONQUER
ISLANDS.
ALL OF THIS HAPPENS IN MADEIRA.
THERE'S NO LABEL FOR THIS.
NOW WE CALL IT SUGAR.
OUR TASTES FOR SUGAR AND THE
HISTORY OF SUGAR IS INCREDIBLY
BLOODY AND VIOLENT.
IT TRANSFORMS THE WAY WE HUMANS
RELATE TO NATURE BUT ALSO TO ONE
ANOTHER.
THE IDEAS OF RACE AND IDEAS OF
GENDER AS WELL.
IT IS A VERY DODGY PLACE IN
MADEIRA.
TRANSPARENCY IS A DANGEROUS
THING, TO ASK FOR A HISTORICAL
VIEW, NOT JUST HOW THINGS ARE
PRODUCED BUT HOW THINGS HAVE
BECOME NORMAL.
THE SUGAR INDUSTRY IS A VERY
ABNORMAL THING.
IT STARTS OFF IN A VERY BLOODY
WAY.
- THANKS FOR SHARING THAT
ARTICLE WITH US.
I FIND IT REALLY FASCINATING.
I WANT TO READ THE FIRST ONE AND
YOUR BOOK FOR SURE.
MICHAEL, YOU WITH STEER POWER --
>> POWER STEER.
- POWER STEER.
POWER STEERING.
YOU REALLY ILLUMINATED THE WHOLE
PROCESS AND BECAME AN OWNER.
- YEAH, THAT ARTICLE FOR ME
WHICH WAS PUBLISHED IN 2002 WAS
A WATER SHED IN MY OWN THINKING
ABOUT FOOD SYSTEM.
I REALLY DIDN'T KNOW THAT MUCH.
TWO THINGS HAPPENED TO ME THE
YEAR BEFORE THAT THAT REALLY
LAUNCHED ME ON THIS WHOLE
INVESTIGATION OF THE FOOD CHAIN,
AND BROUGHT THIS IDEA OF
TRANSPARENCY FRONT AND CENTER IN
MY WORK.
BEFORE "POWER STEER" BEFORE MY
FIRST FEED LOT I WENT TO MY
FIRST POTATO FARM IN IDAHO.
I WAS DOING A PIECE ON MODIFIED
POTATO.
THE NEW LEAF POTATO.
THIS WAS INTRODUCED IN 1999 I
THINK.
MONSANTO, I WAS A GARDEN WRITER
AT THE TIME MORE OR LESS.
I WAS THE MOST BENIGN PERSON ON
EARTH AS FAR AS MONSANTO WAS
CONCERNED.
THEY LET ME IN.
I HAD ACCESS TO THE SCIENTISTS
AND LABS.
THEY WANTED ME TO SEE THEIR
SUCCESS STORIES, THEIR FARMERS.
I WENT TO THE IDAHO VALLEY AND
MET ONE OF THE BUYERS OF THE NEW
LEAF POTATO.
THEY PRODUCE THEIR OWN
INSECTICIDE BACTERIAL DOCKS IN,
AND IF A COLORADO POTATO BEETLE
SO MUCH NIBBLES ON A LEAF THEY
DIE.
YOU DON'T HAVE SO MUCH
PESTICIDES ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE
PLANT.
ALTHOUGH IT IS MORE COMPLICATED
THAN THAT AND THE STORY DOESN'T
TURN ON GENETIC ENGINEERING.
WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER IF
YOU WANT.
SO I WENT TO VISIT THIS FARM, I
WAS COMING FROM THE EAST COAST.
I HAD NO IDEA OF THE SCALE OF
AMERICAN AGRICULTURE.
IN NEW ENGLAND FARMS ARE SMALL
AND PICKET FENCEY, QUAINT, NEVER
MORE THAN 100 ACRES, 200 ACRES
AT THE TOP.
THIS WAS 35,000 ACRES DIVIDED
INTO CROP CIRCLES EACH OF WHICH
WAS 175 ACRES.
WHEN YOU TAKE A PLANE OVER THE
COUNTRY, IF YOU HAVE EVER DONE
THAT YOU LOOK DOWN AT WHAT THE
GREEN CIRCLES ARE, THAT'S WHAT
THEY ARE, THEY ARE CROP CIRCLES.
THIS GUY HAD 75 IN THEM OR
SOMETHING, AND THEY WERE HUGE.
EACH ONE HAD AN IRRIGATION TIBET
LIKE A SWEET SECONDHAND ON A
CLOCK OR A WATCH.
IT WAS GOING AROUND CONTINUOUSLY
SPRAYING WATER AND SPRAYING
FERTILIZER AND SPRAYING
PESTICIDES.
WHEN THE FARMER, WHEN I MET HIM
HE WAS WORKING IN A BUNKER.
HE WAS REMOTELY USING COMPUTERS.
HE HAD A SCREEN.
EVERY SCREEN HAD 6 OR 9 OF THE
CROP CIRCLES AND YOU COULD
ADJUST HOW MUCH PESTICIDE, HOW
MUCH WATER.
I SAID WHY DID YOU WARM INDOORS?
I HADN'T SEEN AN INDOOR FARMER.
SOME OF THE PESTICIDES WE ARE
USING ARE SO TOXIC I CAN'T GO
OUTSIDE FOR FOUR OR FIVE DAYS.
I WANT GO INTO THE FIELDS FOR 4
OR 5 DAYS WHEN I SPRAY.
THAT GOT ME INTO THIS
INTERESTING CATECHISM OF THIS
GUY OF TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY
YOU WOULD USE A CHEMICAL THAT
KEPT YOU INDOORS FOR FOUR OR
FIVE DAYS.
I ASKED HIM WHAT IT WAS CALLED.
IT WAS CALLED MONITOR.
WHAT WAS IT FOR?
IT CONTROLS SOMETHING CALLED NET
NECROSIS, WHICH IS A DISEASE
CARRIED BY AFIB'S THAT COME FROM
A SLICED POTATO.
IF YOU EVER SLICED A POTATO THAT
HAD A BROWN SPOT THAT'S NET NECK
CROWS SIS.
I SAID IS IT A SERIOUS PROBLEM?
CAN YOU EAT THE POTATOES?
IT IS A COSMETIC DEFECT.
WHY DO YOU HAVE TO DO THIS?
MCDONALDS WON'T BUY ANY POTATOES
WITH MORE THAN A TINY PERCENTAGE
INFECTED BY NECROSIS.
AREN'T THERE OTHER PEOPLE TO
SELL TO?
THEY BUY 8 PERCENT OF THE POTATO
CROPS.
IS THERE ANY WAY TO PATROL?
YOU DON'T PLANT RUSSET BURBANK
POTATOES.
IT IS ONLY A PROBLEM OF THAT
VARIETY OF POTATO.
I SAID WHY DON'T YOU PLANT
ANOTHER VARIETY OF POTATO?
MCDONALDS ONLY BUYS RUSSELL
BURBANK POTATOES.
WHY WAS THAT?
YOU LIKE A LONG FRENCH FRY A
RUSSET, THAT SPUD GIVES YOU THE
LONGEST FRENCH FRY, THAT
BEAUTIFUL RED BOX WITH A BOUQUET
OF LONG FRENCH FRIES THAT WE ALL
LOVE.
THERE WAS THAT WHOLE CHAIN OF
CAUSATION.
WE ARE IMPLICATED IN IT.
WHEN WE SIT DOWN TO BUY OUR
MCDONALDS, EAT OUR MCDONALDS
FRENCH RYES, WE PREFER LONGER
ONES TO SHORTER ONES.
WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE OF THE
LACK OF TRANSPARENCY THE
IMPLICATIONS OF THAT PREFERENCE.
IT GOES ALL OF THE WAY BACK TO
THE FARM AND HAS AN IMPACT ON
THE HELP OF THE FARMER AND THE
HELP OF THE LAND.
IT'S A NASTY CHEMICAL THAT'S
COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.
IT IS IN OUR DIET.
SO THAT WAS ONE DATA POINT.
I JUST DIDN'T KNOW THIS ABOUT
AMERICAN AGRICULTURE.
THE VERY SAME YEAR, I WAS DOING
ANOTHER STORY AND I HAD TO DRIVE
ON ROUTE 5 SOUTH FROM SAN
FRANCISCO TOWARD LA, AND I WAS
AN EAST COAST PERSON AT THE TIME
LIVING IN NEW ENGLAND.
IT WAS A GORGEOUS FALL DAY AND
THE HILLS WERE GOLDEN AND THE
SKY WAS BLUE AND I WAS REALLY
ENJOYING MY DRIVE THROUGH
CALIFORNIA.
VERY EXOTIC LANDSCAPE TO ME.
SUDDENLY OUT OF NOWHERE, THE
STENCH ASSAULTED MY NOSTRILS,
THE LIKES OF WHICH I HADN'T
EXPERIENCED SINCE BEFORE THEY
TOOK DOWN THE OLD PORT AUTHORITY
IN MANHATTAN.
THERE WAS A MEN'S ROOM THERE OF
LIKE LEGENDARY STINK-A-TUDE.
THERE IT WAS.
I FLASH BACK ON THAT.
THERE WAS NO EXPLANATION FOR
WHAT I WAS SMELLING.
IT WAS THE GOLDEN PELT OF
CALIFORNIA HILLS AND THE DEEP
BLUE SKY.
I DROVE FOR THREE MORE MILES
UNTIL I FOUND THE SOURCE OF THE
ODOR HARRIS RANCH SPEED LOT.
IT IS RIGHT ON ROUTE 5, THE
CATTLE ARE PRESSED RIGHT UP TO
THE HIGHWAY.
I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.
I KNEW THERE WAS A RESTAURANT,
WHICH ALWAYS STRUCK ME AS THE
STRANGEST THING THAT YOU WOULD
WANT TO EAT AFTER SMELLING -- IF
YOU ARE COMING NORTH YOU DON'T
EXPERIENCE THE SMELL YET.
THIS MIGHT NOT BE ON YOUR MIND.
THERE WERE 50,000 HEAD OF BLACK
CATTLE MILLING AROUND IN BLACK
MANURE AND IN THE DISTANCE WERE
TWO MOUNTAINS ONE WAS A MOUNTAIN
OF CORN I COULD SEE AND THE
OTHER WAS A MOUNTAIN OF MANURE.
THESE ANIMALS WERE TRANSLATING
ONE PILE INTO THE OTHER ALONG
THE WAY CREATING A FLESH THAT
BECOMES OUR HAMBURGERS.
THE NEIGHBORS OF THIS PLACE
REFERRED TO IT AS COWSCHWITZ.
I WAS STUNNED.
I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE OUR
HAMBURGERS CAME FROM.
I LEARNED WHERE THE FRENCH FRIES
CAME FROM AND HAMBURGERS.
I HAD THE WHOLE HAPPY MEAL RIGHT
THERE.
THAT IS WHERE THE IDEA DAWNED ON
ME THAT WOULDN'T IT BE
INTERESTING TO TRACE THE
SEQUENCE, A SERIES OF OUR MEALS
BACK TO THE SOURCE.
HOW AMAZING THAT WE HAD.
I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT THIS.
I HAD NO IDEA HOW BEEF WAS
PRODUCED.
THAT LED DIRECTLY TO THIS 534.
I GOT AN ASSIGNMENT FROM THE
TIMES MAGAZINE TO FOLLOW A
SINGLE ANIMAL THROUGH THE WHOLE
FOOD CHAIN.
AND IT WAS EYE OPENING.
IT WASN'T AT HARRIS RANCH, BUT I
STARTED, IF YOU ARE IN VEIL,
SOUTH DAKOTA.
I SAW, IT WAS AN EDUCATION IN
HOW INTRICATE THE FOOD SYSTEM
IS, HOW MUCH SENSE IT MAKES FROM
ONE PERSPECTIVE OF ECONOMIC
EFFICIENCY AND HOW CRAZY IT IS
FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF
ECOLOGICAL EFFICIENCY.
THAT IS REALLY THE INTENTION IN
THAT ARTICLE BETWEEN THE LOGIC
OF CAPITALISM AND LOGIC OF
BIOLOGY.
WHEN IT COMES TO ANIMALS AND
FOOD IT COMES TO HIGH RELIEF.
THAT'S WHAT STARTED ME ON MY
JOURNEY WAS 534.
>> YOU TELEGRAPH THIS MOMENT IN
THE PIECE WHERE THE FARMER KIND
OF QUIPS, I PREFER NOT TO GIVE
THE ANIMALS HORMONES, TOO, THAT
LOOKING AT THE CUE FROM THE
CONSUMER --
- THE CONSUMER HAS TO KNOW
ENOUGH TO CARE ABOUT IT.
THE INFORMATION IS NOT TRAVELING
BACK AND FORTH, AND THAT LACK OF
TRANSPARENCY BENEATH OUR NOTICE
THE DESTRUCTION OF OUR HEALTH
AND EVERYBODY IN THE FOOD CHAIN,
THAT WAS AN INTERESTING -- THE
REASON I WENT TO THE ANIMAL AND
NOT JUST WRITE ABOUT IT I WANTED
TO BE AS SYMPATHETIC AS I COULD
FOR THE RANCHERS WHO OWN THE
ANIMAL THROUGH THE SYSTEM.
IT IS EASY FOR US AS JOURNALISTS
EVEN THE CONSUMER TO SAY WHY
GIVE HORMONES TO YOUR ANIMALS?
THE REASON YOU DO IS ESSENTIALLY
YOU DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY IN THIS
SYSTEM UNLESS YOU DO.
THE HORMONE COSTS YOU $15.
IT IS AN IMPLANT THAT GOES
BEHIND THE EARS AND IT WILL
PRODUCE ENOUGH ADDITIONAL WEIGHT
GAIN TO BE WORTH $50 AT SALE.
THE MARGINS ARE SO TINY FOR THE
RANCHERS THAT IF THEY DON'T DO
IT THEY LOSE OUT.
SO YOU SEE WHY SOMETIMES YOU
NEED REGULATIONS TO CHANGE
THINGS.
THE MARKET IS GOING TO HAVE A
HARD TIME CHANGING THAT.
IT'S FUNNY, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS
I ASKED THE RANCHERS WAS, IF
EVERYBODY STOPPED USING
HORMONES, YOU WOULDN'T BE AT A
COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE ANY
MORE.
WHY DON'T YOU SUPPORT THE IDEA
OF A RULE TO ELIMINATE HORMONES
AND FEED PRODUCTION.
THEY LOOKED AT ME CRAZY LIKE WE
ARE NOT COMPETING WITH ONE
ANOTHER.
WE ARE COMPETING WITH CHICKEN.
THE PRICE OF CHICKEN IS LOWER.
THEY NEED EVERY EDGE AGAINST
CHEAPER FORMS OF PROTEIN.
- JUST TO GO BACK, YOUR
WONDERFUL POTATO ADVENTURE ENDED
UP IN THE SECTION OF "BOTANY OF
DESIRE."
SINCE WE ARE RECOMMENDING BOOKS,
NOW ONE OF MY FAVORITE BOOKS AS
A FELLOW GARDENER.
YESTERDAY WAS LUTHER BURBANK'S
BIRTHDAY.
- I SHOULD KNOW THAT.
- I WAS HOPING YOU WOULD MENTION
THAT.
SO RAJ, MAYBE TO CONNECT A
LITTLE BIT TO INTERNATIONAL
WOMEN'S DAY AND THE WORK YOU
HAVE BEEN DOING IN MALAWI, CAN
YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
THAT.
THERE'S SOME REALLY INTERESTING
LEARNINGS THERE.
BY THE WAY, RAJ HAS A FANTASTIC
HEAD MED TALK IN CASE YOU DON'T
GET ENOUGH OF THIS TONIGHT, BUT
HE EXPLAINS A BIT ABOUT SOCIAL
TECHNOLOGIES.
- HERE'S AN INTERNATIONAL WOMAN
STUDY'S QUESTION FOR YOU.
IF JOBS ARE SCARCE MEN SHOULD BE
GIVEN THOSE JOBS OVER WOMEN.
WHO AGREES WITH THAT?
IF JOBS ARE SCARCE MEN SHOULD
HAVE PREFERENCE OVER WOMEN IN
GETTING THOSE JOBS?
ANY ONE WANT TO AGREE.
SO THAT QUESTION WAS ASKED
INTERNATIONALLY IN 2012.
THE RESPONSE RATE OVER A RANGE
OF COUNTRIES WERE MEASURED.
ICELAND ONLY 3 PERCENT.
ICELAND WAS THE LEADING COUNTRY,
ONLY 3 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION
OF ICELAND AGREED WITH THAT
STATEMENT.
99 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION OF
EGYPT AGREED WITH THAT
STATEMENT.
THE INTERESTING QUESTION IS,
WHY?
WHAT IS DRIVING THAT?
THE RESEARCHERS IN THE QUARTERLY
JOURNAL OF ECONOMICS PUT FORWARD
SOME SUGGESTIONS.
I WANT TO TEST THEM OUT.
ONE SUGGESTION IS THE PRESENCE
OR ABSENCE OF OIL THAT DRIVES
SEXISM.
DOES THAT SOUND PLAUSIBLE?
RELIGION POSSIBLY?
UNDER UTILIZATION OF GMO'S?
NO.
MAINSTREAM MEDIA?
AND THE PLOWS NO?
IT'S THE PLOW.
SO THEY CONTROLLED FOR 200 YEARS
OF HISTORY.
WHAT THEY OBSERVED WAS THAT WHEN
YOU CONTROL THE OIL, WHEN YOU
CONTROL FOR INCOME OR RELIGION,
THE PRESENCE OR ABSENCE OF PLOWS
CAN EX -- EXPLAIN ATTITUDES
AROUND GENDER IN PATRIARCHY
SYSTEM.
HOW CAN A PLOW CHANGE THE WAY
PEOPLE THINK ABOUT ONE ANOTHER?
HOW CAN A TECHNOLOGY IN THE FOOD
SYSTEM CHANGE THE WAY THAT WE
VIEW ONE ANOTHER?
HERE'S HOW.
THIS IS AN OLD STORY.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT IT IS
YOU NEED FOR A PLOW TO HAPPEN,
YOU NEED COMMONS.
YOU NEED LAND WHERE MEN AND
WOMEN FARMING ARE EQUALLY
CONVERTED INTO PRIVATE PROPERTY.
YOU NEED UNDER WORK.
YOU NEED DAIRYING TO BE LESS.
YOU NEEDLESS SPACE FOR THE COW
TO BE FREE TO BE ABLE TO GRAZE.
YOU CLEAR THE COWS OFF AND YOU
PLANT MONO CROP.
ALL OF A SUDDEN WOMEN AND MEN'S
SALARIES START TO DIVERGE.
OVER THE PRO PROCESS OF FIVE
CENTURIES AND GREAT VIOLENCE
PARTICULARLY VIOLENCE AGAINST
WOMEN, YOU HAVE WOMEN CONFINED
INCREASINGLY TO THE HOME.
YOU HAVE ROLES AROUND COOKING
AND REPRODUCTION ASSIGNED TO
WOMEN AND ROLLED AROUND LEARNING
AND CARE AND PROFESSIONALIZED
MEN WOMEN CAN'T BE EDUCATORS.
AND THE PLOW FEATURES IN A STORY
ABOUT PRIVATE PROPERTY AND
AGRICULTURAL TECHNOLOGY.
THAT'S HOW HAVING CERTAIN KINDS
OF AGRICULTURAL TECHNOLOGY MEANS
THAT SOCIETY ARE SYSTEMATICALLY
MORE THAN LIKELY TO BE SEXIST.
IT IS AN INCREDIBLE ARTICLE.
THE QUARTERLY JOURNALISTS I CAN
SHARE IT WITH YOU AFTERWARDS.
WHAT I AM EXCITED ABOUT, IF WE
GOT RID OF THE PLOW TODAY WOULD
WE LIVE IN A HAPPY WORLD FREE OF
SEXES.
OF COURSE NOT.
IT TAKES WORK TO UNDO THE
PATRIARCHY.
WE HAVE TO BE CALLED OUT ON OUR
PATRIARCHY HERE.
IT ALSO TAKES STRUGGLE AND
RE-IMAGE INNING OF WHAT THIS
LOOKS LIKE.
WE HAVE PLACES LIKE MALAWI, A
BRITISH COLONY WHERE WE ARE OVER
50 PERCENT.
WHAT WOMEN AND MEN DID THERE WAS
FIRST DEVELOP AGO GROW
ECOLOGICAL TECHNOLOGIES TO BE
ABLE TO GROW MORE FOOD AND MORE
NUTRITIOUS FOOD.
THEY MANAGED THROUGH TRIAL AND
ERROR TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO GET
MEN TO COOK.
HOW DO YOU GET MEN TO COOK BY
THE WAY?
SHOUT IT OUT?
IF YOU ARE CHALLENGE, YOUR
COOKING CHALLENGE IS TO GET MEN
TO COOK, WHAT DO YOU DO?
GIVE THEM A GRILL.
THANK YOU.
HOW DO YOU GET MEN TO COOK?
TAKE AWAY SEX.
GO ON STRIKE.
SOMEONE SAID THE RIGHT ANSWER,
WHICH IS TURN IT INTO A
COMPETITION.
INITIALLY WHAT THEY DID WAS FOOD
NETWORK.
THEY -- THE FARMERS FORMED
RESEARCH TEAMS IN MALAWI AND
WENT AROUND DOOR TO DOOR AND
EXPLAINED THE MAN OF THE HOUSE,
COME ON OUT HERE.
HERE'S HOW YOU USE IT.
IT WAS A LOVELY MOMENT AND
EVERYONE IS VERY EXCITED AND THE
FOOD IS DELICIOUS AND NOTHING
CHANGES.
WHY WOULD IT?
WE DON'T WATCH THE FOOD NETWORK
TO END PATRIARCHY.
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE FOOD NETWORK
IS GOOD AT.
SO THEN THEY TURNED IT INTO A
GAME.
THIS IS BEFORE SILICONE VALLEY
EVEN HEARD OF IT, THIS IS
GAMIFICATION FROM NORTHERN
MALAWI.
WHAT THE SPACE OF EQUALITY DOES,
WHEN YOU ARE PLAYING THIS GAME,
WOMEN AND MEN CAN COOK TOGETHER.
WOMEN CAN TEACH MEN.
WOMEN CAN CALL MEN OUT ON OUR
SHIFT AND IT BECOMES A CASE FOR
EQUALITY.
WHAT THAT DOES IS KICK START
HARD FEMINIST ORGANIZING.
IT TAKES A WHILE.
WE HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING A COUPLE
IN NORTHERN MALAWI FOR THE
COMMUNITIES PROJECT.
IT HAS TAKEN FOUR YEARS FOR A
GUY TO GET WITH THE PROGRAM AND
TO ACTUALLY DO THE COOKING AND
CARRY THE WATER AND FETCH
FIREWOOD.
FOUR YEARS TO OVER TURN
PATRIARCHY.
THE PAYOFF HAS BEEN INCREDIBLE
FROM MALNUTRITION.
IN THIS PARTICULAR PART OF
MALAWI, IT HAS GONE TO SINGLE
DIGITS FROM BEING 55 PERCENT.
YOU HAVE AN AMAZING RANGE OF
CROPS.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE REPORTING.
THEY FEEL MORE EMPOWERED IN THE
HOME.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE REPORTING
VIOLENCE.
IT TAKES SOCIAL TECHNOLOGIES TO
END HUNGER.
IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN A
TECHNOLOGY THAT WILL SURELY
RAISE HOUSEHOLD INCOME, THEN
SENDING GIRLS TO SECONDARY
SCHOOL IS A GREAT TECHNOLOGY.
IT IS NOT AS SEXY AS SPLICING
DNA TOGETHER OR EDITING GENES,
BUT IT IS MORE DURABLE.
IT TAKES A LITTLE LONGER.
$8 PER PERSON PER YEAR.
THIS IS SOMETHING WE ARE
FOLLOWING IN A DOCUMENTARY
PROJECT, AND IF YOU ARE
INTERESTED YOU GOOGLE SOILS,
FOOD AND HEALTHY COMMUNITY.
YOU CAN SEE THE WOMEN AND MEN
WHO REALLY INVENTED THIS.
THEY ARE AN INCREDIBLE BOOK AND
INCREDIBLE INSPIRATION.
- CAN I JUMP IN.
RAJ, WHAT DO YOU THINK IT IS
ABOUT GAMES THAT CREATES THIS
SPACE?
IS IT JUST COMPETITION?
MEN LIKE TO COMPETE OR IS THERE
SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON?
- IT IS PLAY, IT IS JOY.
IT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO PUT DOWN
ROLES AND TRY OTHER ROLES,
RIGHT?
- YOU AND ALICE IN PARTICULAR
HAVE CHAMPIONED THE IDEA OF WHAT
IS AWESOME ABOUT THIS IS FOOD
INVOLVES PLEASURE.
SOCIAL CHANGE WHEN I LEARNED IT
IN BRITAIN AS A LEFTIST, IF YOU
WERE ENJOYING IT, YOU WERE DOING
IT WRONG.
IF IT WAS FUN, YOU WERE ON THE
BOARD OF RICE.
THE ONE OF THE NICE THINGS ABOUT
THIS GAMIFICATION IS PEOPLE WANT
TO DO IT BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE
IS HAVING A WHALE OF A TIME.
PEOPLE SITTING ON THE SIDE LINES
CAN SEE THEY ARE MISSING
SOMETHING.
I THINK
PLEASURE IS AN IMPORTANT
TOOL FOR RECRUITING RADICAL
SOCIAL CHANGE.
- HOW DO YOU SPREAD THAT?
YOU TALK I THINK MAYBE IT WAS IN
THE TED MED TALK YOU TALK ABOUT
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NORTHERN
MALAWI AND CENTRAL MALAWI AND
THE PROTESTS WHERE THIS PROGRAM
HAS BEEN INSTITUTED AND WHERE IT
HASN'T.
HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT SCALING
UP OR SHARING THAT OR
ACCELERATING THE LEARNING?
- IT HAS BEEN VERY POPULAR WITH
THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
BECAUSE IT IS SO CHEAP BECAUSE
IT DOESN'T INVOLVE EXTERNAL
INPUTS, PARTICULARLY IN A
COUNTRY THAT HAS LITTLE FOREIGN
EXCHANGE, ENDING PATRIARCHY IS
CHEAPENING THAN IMPORTING
FERTILIZER.
THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY
THEY SPREAD THE WORD AND WHY IT
IS GOING HORIZONTALLY THROUGH
NORTHERN MALAWI.
BUT IT ALSO HELPS THAT THEY ARE
TRAVELING TO TANZANIA, THEY ARE
TRAVELING TO ZIMBABWE WHERE THEY
ARE MEETING WITH THE HEAD OF THE
INTERNATIONAL PEASANT --
(INDISCERNIBLE) THEY ARE SHARING
IDEAS.
WHAT WORKS IN NORTHERN MALAWI
WILL PROBABLY NOT WORK IN IOWA.
THERE ARE CERTAIN IDEAS THAT DO
SPREAD AND PEOPLE ARE
COMMUNICATING THOSE.
IT IS LIKE FEED SHARING.
WE CAN SHARE SEEDS, BUT SURE AS
HELL WHAT GROWS IN MALAWI WILL
NOT FLOURISH IN IOWA NOW.
THERE ARE TECHNIQUES AND IDEAS
AND WAYS OF THINKING TOGETHER.
- TO COVER OUR FINAL READING WE
GOT TO READ ONE OF YOUR LATEST
PIECES YOU WROTE LAST OCTOBER
ABOUT SORT OF HOW DID THE OBAMA
ADMINISTRATION COME UP SHORT IN
INFLUENCES BIG AG AND BIG FOOD.
YOU STARTED BY ELOQUENTLY
DESCRIBING ALL OF THE
INTERCONNECTION AND
INTERDEPENDENCY AND THE FOOD
SYSTEM, HOW EVERYTHING IS
RELATED, HEALTH AND CLIMATE.
YOU TALK ABOUT HEARING PRESIDENT
OBAMA BASICALLY PARROT WHAT YOU
SAID.
THE NEXT DAY YOU ARE LET DOWN
BECAUSE YOU HEAR SOMEBODY SAID
IT BACK.
THAT WAS IN OCTOBER.
YOU ENDED IT NOT BEING TERRIBLY
OPTIMISTIC ABOUT EITHER
CANDIDATE'S VIEW OF FOOD AT THAT
POINT.
- I THINK I MADE IT CLEAR WE
WERE BETTER OFF WITH ONE THAN
THE OTHER.
I HOPE I DID.
YEAH, WELL, THAT PIECE WAS A
HARD PIECE TO WRITE.
I HAD HIGH HOPES FOR WHAT WOULD
HAPPEN DURING THE OBAMA
ADMINISTRATION.
HERE WE WERE WITH BOTH THE
PRESIDENT AND LESS KNOWN AND THE
FIRST LADY KNOWING ABOUT FOOD
AND THE FOOD SYSTEM AND HAVING
AN INTEREST IN IT.
AND THERE WAS SOME REASON TO
BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE OPEN TO A
REFORM AGENDA.
WHAT YOU WERE ELUDING TO DURING
THE CAMPAIGN WAS I PUBLISHED AN
OPEN LETTER TO THE PRESIDENT,
WHOEVER IT WAS GOING TO BE IN
THE FALL OF 2008 SAYING,
HERE'S -- LAYING OUT A WHOLE
AGENDA FROM WHAT TO DO WITH FOOD
IN THE SCHOOLS TO WHAT TO DO
WITH AGRICULTURAL POLICY, FOOD
STAMPS ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF.
IT WAS A PIE IN THE SKY THING.
- FARMER IN CHIEF.
- YEAH, FARMER IN CHIEF.
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE TAKEN
UP BECAUSE IT CAN EFFECT THE
DEBATE.
YOU ARE ALWAYS A WRITER.
IT'S NOT REALLY TO DRAFT POLICY
CHANGES.
THEY WERE ALL PIE IN THE SKY.
MUCH TO MY SURPRISE OBAMA GAVE
AN INTERVIEW IN IOWA WHERE HE
SUMMARIZED THE ARTICLE IN THIS
ONE MY 8,000 WORDS HE BOILED
DOWN A NEAT 75 OR 100.
I WAS IMPRESSED.
I CAN'T DO ANYTHING THAT
SUCCINCT.
ONE DAY AFTER HE DID IT CHARLES
GRASSLEY THE SENIOR SENATOR FROM
IOWA ATTACKED HIM FROM BEING AN
ENEMY OF AGRICULTURAL AND
AMERICAN FARMERS.
HE WALKED IT RIGHT BACK AND SAID
I WAS QUOTING SOMETHING I HAD
READ.
YOU KNOW, THAT SET THE DYE.
THAT WAS OBAMA'S PATTERN ON A
LOT OF THINGS.
HE WENT INTO IT.
THERE WAS A SCENE I RECREATED IN
THAT PIECE THAT SAM BARBARA WHO
SHARED WITH ME.
SAM BARBARA IS A CHEF IN NEW
YORK HE HAS A PLACE CALLED STONE
BARNS.
IT'S VERY HIGH END.
HE'S A WONDERFUL COOK.
IF YOU HAVE A THOUSAND DOLLARS
TO BURN ON A MEAL FOR TWO THAT'S
WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.
THE DAN WAS COOKING FOR BARACK
AND MICHELLE DURING THE
TRANSITION AND THEY HAD A
CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT COULD BE
DONE, WHAT COULDN'T BE DONE AND
THE PRESIDENT, OR THE PRESIDENT
ELECT'S VIEW WAS POLITICALLY
ASTUTE.
HE DIDN'T THINK AMERICA WAS
READY FOR BIG CHANGES IN THE
FOOD SYSTEM YET.
THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A LOT
MORE CHANGES IN CONSCIOUSNESS OR
AWARENESS OF FOOD BEFORE THAT
COULD HAPPEN.
IT WAS AT THE MEETING AND DAN
WAS PRESSURING HIM TO GET
INVOLVED IN THE ISSUE.
IT WAS AT THE MEETING HE TURNED
TO MICHELLE AND SAID MAYBE THIS
IS YOUR ISSUE.
SHE WAS PLANNING TO WORK ON
MILITARY FAMILIES AS HER ISSUE.
SO THAT MEETING OR OTHERS
HAPPENED SUBSEQUENTLY, HE
DECIDED TO FOCUS ON CHILDHOOD
OBESITY.
SHE MADE A CONTRIBUTION BETWEEN
MAKING THE LINKS BETWEEN DIET
AND FOOD AND THE FARM.
AT THE BEGINNING SHE TALKED
ABOUT FARMER'S MARKET, WAS
PHOTOGRAPHED IN A FARMER'S
MARKET IN WASHINGTON.
OVER TIME, THE FOOD INDUSTRY, BY
THE -- BY THE WAY YOU SHOULD ASK
SAM KASS FOR HIS VERSION OF THE
STORY.
HE'S COMING TO YOUR LAST CLASS,
I THINK.
BUT OVER TIME SHE WAS FACED WITH
THIS INTERESTING CHALLENGE.
THE FOOD INDUSTRY WAS NERVOUS
ABOUT WHAT SHE WAS TALKING
ABOUT.
SHE GAVE A SPEECH TO THE GROCERY
FACTORIES OF AMERICA.
IF YOU READ IT NOW IT WAS A
SURPRISINGLY TOUGH SPEECH.
IT WASN'T ENOUGH TO REFORMULATE
YOUR PRODUCTS.
YOU HAVE TO CHANGE THE WAY YOU
ARE DOING BUSINESS FROM THE FARM
TO THE FORK AND IT WAS A TOUGH
SPEECH AND IT FREAKED OUT THE
INDUSTRY.
THEY DECIDED THEY HAD TO DO
SOMETHING.
WHAT THEY DID WAS APPROACHED HER
WITH CARROTS AND STICKS AND
TRIED TO DRAW HER INTO THESE
PARTNERSHIPS, PUBLIC PRIVATE
PARTNERSHIPS.
SO THAT IN EXCHANGE FOR A PUBLIC
APPEARANCE OF WAL-MART, WAL-MART
WOULD DO CERTAIN THINGS TO
REDUCE THE QUALITY OF FOOD AND
DO THINGS THAT WERE NOT
MEANINGLESS, BUT REFORMULATION
IS LIMITED IN ITS VALUE.
THIS IS SOMETHING SAM AND I
ARGUED ABOUT MANY TIMES.
IF YOU TAKE X NUMBER OF CALORIES
OUT OF THE SYSTEM THAT'S A GOOD
THING.
WHEN YOU HAVE A HISTORY OF WHEN
YOU DO THAT AND YOU PUT LOW
SUGAR OR LOW SALT, PEOPLE WILL
EAT MORE OF IT.
THE YOU END UP WITH MORE
CALORIES.
PLAYING AROUND NUTRIENT BY
NUTRIENT IS A GAME THE FOOD
INDUSTRY LOVES TO PLAY.
THEY TURN IT INTO HEALTH CLAIMS
THAT SELL MORE FOOD.
SO THERE WAS A WHOLE SERIES, TO
MY MIND I ELUDED THEIR IMPACT.
SHE STILL DID HAVE AN IMPACT.
I AM NOSTALGIC FOR HER AND HER
GARDEN.
MELANIA DECIDED TO KEEP THE
GARDEN.
I WILL BE CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT IT
LOOKS LIKE THIS SUMMER.
SOMEBODY NEEDS TO DO THAT STORY
AROUND HARVEST TIME, WHO IS
GOING TO WEED IT.
I DON'T KNOW.
ON THE OTHER SIDE THE HARDER
PART OF FOOD POLICY HE TURNS IT
OVER TO SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE
WHOM I AM TOLD OBAMA REALLY
BELIEVED WAS A REFORMER WHEN HE
HIRED HIM AND GAVE HIM SOME
REFORM ELEMENTS IN THE AGENDA.
BILL SACK WAS A FORMER IOWA
GOVERNOR UNDERSTOOD BIG AG BUT
HE UNDERSTOOD HOW TO TALK TO
URBANITES, TOO.
WHAT I UNDERSTAND, I HEARD FROM
PEOPLE CLOSE TO BOTH OF THEM,
OBAMA RECOGNIZED A CERTAIN POINT
THAT HE WAS AN URBAN CREATURE
AND DIDN'T UNDERSTAND MUCH ABOUT
RURAL AMERICA.
HE HAD IN TOM VILSACK SOMEONE
WHO COULD BE THE PRESIDENT OF
JUNIOR AMERICA AND KEEP THAT
WORLD HAPPY.
OF COURSE THAT WORLD REVOLTED
RIGHT AFTER OBAMA LEFT.
HELPED ELECT DONALD TRUMP.
SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT
CONCLUSION TO DRAW FROM THAT.
THE SOME PROGRESS WAS MADE.
I THINK THE BIGGEST PROGRESS WAS
THE ELEVATION OF THE ISSUE AND
PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS.
I THINK IF YOU TALK TO PEOPLE
WORKING IN THE TRENCHES ON FOOD
POLICY, THAT THERE WERE SOME
GAINS THEY WERE THE KNOW YOUR
FOOD AND KNOW YOUR FARMER
PROGRAM AND THERE WAS MORE MONEY
FOR LOCAL AGRICULTURE AND MORE
MONEY FROM FARMS AND SCHOOL.
WE MINIMIZE WHAT HAPPENED.
I DON'T MEAN TO DAMN THEM AND WE
WILL MISS THEM ON THIS ISSUE.
- THE NERVE YOU STRUCK SORT OF
PROMPTED THE DISCOURSE.
WHAT PROGRESS ARE WE MAKING IN
THE FOOD MOVEMENT NOW AND WHERE
DO WE GO AND ONE OF THE NICE
RESPONSES I READ WAS FROM MARION
NESTLE WHO SAID NOW WE HAVE ALL
OF THIS INTEREST ON COLLEGE
CAMPUSES FOR COURSES IN FOOD
SYSTEMS AND FOOD STUDIES.
- I THINK THAT'S A VERY
ENCOURAGING THING.
THE PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM WILL BE
LEADING THE FOOD MOVEMENT IN THE
FUTURE.
THERE IS IMMENSE INTEREST.
THIS IS A GENERATIONAL ISSUE.
THERE ARE VERY SPECIFIC REASONS
FOR IT.
I HAVE SPOKEN IN A COUPLE OF LAW
SCHOOLS RECENTLY AND IT IS
REMARKABLE TO SEE HOW MANY
PEOPLE WANT TO WORK ON FOOD LAW.
IN PUBLIC POLICY.
A LOT IS HAPPENING, AND A CADRE
IS BEING BUILT THAT WILL BE
INFLUENTIAL.
YOU HAVE LOCAL POLITICIANS
HAVING SUCCESS IN FOOD ISSUES.
THEY MOVE UP.
SOONER OR LATER SOMEONE WILL
REALIZE IT HAS -- HAS ELECTRO
POWER.
- ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FROM
PEOPLE HERE ABOUT THE READINGS?
- I AM WONDERING WHETHER YOU SEE
ANY OUTLINES OF TRUMP'S FOOD
POLICY?
NO.
I THINK THE PROCESS AROUND THE
SELECTION OF THE AGRICULTURE
SECRETARY, SONNY PERDUE NO
RELATION TO THE CHICKEN FORTUNE
BUT RELATED TO OTHER
AGRICULTURAL FORCES, WAS A KIND
OF A MESS, AND THERE WAS -- THE
FARM BUREAU HAD THEIR CANDIDATE
AND HE HAD THE AGRICULTURAL
ADVISORS WHO WERE 60 OF THE MOST
REACTION NATURE REPEOPLE
INVOLVED WITH FOOD THAN YOU CAN
IMAGINE.
I AM SURE NOT ALL 60, BUT 59.
BUT IN THE END HE GAVE A JOB TO
THE GUY WHO CAME AND GOLFS WITH
HIM AND THEY REALLY HIT IT OFF.
ONE OF THE BIG CONTRADICTIONS
YOU WILL SEE IN THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION IS THEY ARE
DEPENDENT ON A RURAL VOTE.
THEY DON'T HAVE THE FIRST IDEA
WHAT TO DO FOR THE RURAL VOTE,
HOW TO HELP FARMERS.
AND THEY ARE ON A COLLISION
COURSE BECAUSE THEIR TRADE
POLICIES ARE GOING TO BE AN
ENORMOUS THREAT TO THE HELP OF
AGRICULTURE.
BIG AG DEPENDS ON EXPORTS.
WE PRODUCE TOO MUCH CORN AND SOY
AND RICE AND WHEAT.
IF WE CAN'T SELL IT OVERSEAS
AMERICAN AGRICULTURE WITHERS.
WHILE HE IS DEPENDENT ON THE
FARMERS WHO ARE GROWING THESE
PRODUCTS, HE IS PURSUING
POLICIES THAT WILL DISADVANTAGE
THEM.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT TENSION
GETS RESOLVED EXCEPT IT MIGHT
PUSH FARMERS AWAY FROM TRUMP,
WHICH WOULD BE A GOOD THING.
I DON'T THINK HE HAS GIVEN MUCH
THOUGHT TO AGRICULTURE POLICY OR
RURAL POLICY IN GENERAL.
I THINK SONNY PERDUE WILL BE AN
EXCEPTIONAL AGRICULTURE
SECRETARY.
- WE ALSO TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT
OF THE IMMIGRATION ISSUES.
- THAT'S THE OTHER COLLISION
COURSE THEY ARE ON.
AMERICAN AGRICULTURE IN
CALIFORNIA AND THE MEAT INDUSTRY
DEPENDS COMPLETELY ON
UNDOCUMENTED --
- WRANGLING, ESTIMATED 40
PERCENT OF THE WINE CROP COULD
NOT BE HARVESTED.
THAT'S AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF
MONEY AT RISK.
- I THINK IN THE END THEY WILL
HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT
AGRICULTURAL LABOR AND NOT
FOLLOW THROUGH ON THEIR
INSTINCTS ABOUT THAT.
THEY ARE KILLING THE WELFARE OF
THEIR SUPPORTERS.
THERE ARE SO MANY CONTRADICTIONS
IN TRUMP'S IDEOLOGY.
- ANY QUESTIONS ON THE READINGS?
IS CAN WE RUN THE MIC UP TO YOU?
MAYBE YOU CAN COME OVER TO THE
SIDE AND ROHINI IS GOING TO RUN
UP THE STAIRS.
THE IF YOU WANT TO ASK A
QUESTION, MAYBE MOVE TO THE
SIDE.
YOU WENT THE WRONG WAY.
SORRY.
- I WANTED TO BACKTRACK 20
MINUTES AGO WHAT DOES IT TAKE
FOR A MAN TO COOK, THEY ARE
CATEGORICALLY SEEN AS THE CHEFS.
WHAT DO YOU RESPOND TO THE FACT
THAT YOU THINK OF A RESTAURANT
LIKE CHEZ PANISSE OR A HIGH END
RESTAURANT YOU THINK OF THE HEAD
CHEF.
YOU DON'T TYPICALLY THINK OF A
WOMAN OR A WOMAN DOESN'T
TYPICALLY COME TO MIND.
WE ARE IN THE HOME SEEING WOMEN
BE THE MAIN PRODUCERS OF THAT
AND THAT TRANSLATES TO IN THE
WORK FORCE, WE SEE MEN.
HOW DOES THAT STAIR ROW TYPE
REALLY --
- COOKING FOR MONEY AND COOKING
IN PUBLIC IS A VERY MALE THING
AND HAS BEEN FOR A LONG TIME.
THE PERSON WHO BROUGHT UP
GRILLS, ONE OF THE REASONS MEN
GRILL IS IT IS VERY SHOWY AND
EVERYBODY CAN SEE IT HAPPENING,
IT IS OUTSIDE.
SO THAT CONTRA -- IT IS A
CONTRADICTION, IT IS A VERY THIN
-- IT HAS BEEN A PART OF THE
CULTURE FOR A LONG TIME.
- THE INSTITUTION OF THE CHEF
HAPPENED AFTER WORLD WAR II, IT
WAS A WORK FORCE DEVELOPMENT AND
SKILLS TRAINING THAT DATES BACK
IN THAT WAY.
- THE HISTORIES OF AMERICAN
CUISINES THAT ARE REALLY ABOUT
WOMEN OF COLOR COOKING IN WHITE
HOUSEHOLDS AND BORDEAUX
HOUSEHOLDS.
WHITE MEN GET PAID A GREAT DEAL
MORE THAN BLACK MEN FOR STEALING
THE RECIPES AND RECYCLING THEM.
THERE'S ANOTHER STORY HERE WHICH
IS ABOUT THE KINDS OF WORK THAT
ARE SYSTEMATICALLY PAID LESS
THAN OTHERS, SO THE PROFESSIONAL
CHEF VERSES THE HOME HEALTH OR
THE DOCTOR VERSES THE NURSE.
- THOUGH MEN BECOME NURSES AND
WE PAY MORE THAN A WOMAN WHO
DOES THE WORK.
IT IS THIS UNEQUAL WORLD OF PAY
THAT THAT LONG HISTORY -- IT HAS
ITS INFATUATION WITH THE PLOW IT
FOLLOWS THE LOCK -- LONGER
HISTORY OF PATRIARCHY.
- ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
- I HAVE SOME OPTIMISM IT IS
CHANGING, THOUGH, AND THAT IN
YOUR GENERATION THESE PATTERNS
CAN BE BROKEN AND THAT BOYS
GROWING UP TODAY AND IN AMERICA
SEE CHEFS AS, THEY ARE LIKE
ATHLETES.
THEY ARE CELEBRITIES.
THEY ARE HEROS AND THEY ARE
PEOPLE TO EMULATE.
SO PERHAPS WITH THIS GENERATION
WE CAN DROP SOME OF THOSE
STEREOTYPES.
- LET'S TALK MORE ABOUT THIS
FOOD BUSINESS AND WHERE DO WE GO
FROM HERE WITH THE
ADMINISTRATION AND WHERE DO WE
GO WITH THIS AS YOU CHARACTERIZE
IT MICHAEL, THIS VERY SHORT OF
LOSE, INFORMAL, LOTS OF
DIFFERENT GROUPS WITH DIFFERENT
PRIORITIES.
WE SEE IN THIS SEMESTER WHERE
SARU IS WORKING ON FOOD LABOR
AND REALLY TYING IT TO WOMEN'S
ISSUES.
THE WOMEN'S ISSUE IS BLOSSOMING.
YOU SEE THIS IN FOOD.
YOU REALLY HIT ON THAT THE
BEGINNING OF THE ARTICLE WHERE
YOU GOT ALL OF THESE THINGS
WHERE IN EFFECT WE SHOULD HAVE A
CABINET SECRETARY OF FOOD.
FOOD SORT OF BECOMES EMBEDDED AS
A SUBORDINATE ISSUE OR IDEA IN
BIGGER IDEAS.
MY QUESTION IS FOR THE STUDENTS
IN THE ROOM, WHERE SHOULD THEY
THINK ABOUT PLACING THEMSELVES,
HOW DO WE MAYBE A COUPLE OF
QUESTIONS ALL TOGETHER.
HOW DO WE FIND THE COMMON GROUND
OR THE COMMON CAUSE BETWEEN
THESE GROUPS AND FROM YOUR
PERSPECTIVES NOW IN 2017 WHERE
ARE THE LEVERAGE POINTS IN THE
SYSTEM?
WHERE SHOULD HE BE APPLYING
OURSELVES TO MOVE TOWARD A MORE
TRANSPARENT EQUITABLE, HEALTHY,
SUSTAINABLE FOOD SYSTEM?
- ONE OF THE WAYS THAT I KNEW
THE FOOD MOVEMENT HAS WORK TO DO
IS IN THE MOMENTS IT TOUCHES UP
AGAINST THE FAR RIGHT, AND
THERE'S AN UNCOMFORTABLE MOMENT
WHEN AMERICA FIRST OVERLAPS WITH
EATING LOCAL.
I WANT TO EXPLORE THAT.
THE IDEA THAT WE SHOULD BE
EATING, YOU KNOW, THAT OUR BEEF
SHOULD COME FROM WITHIN THE
UNITED STATES AS OPPOSED TO FROM
HALFWAY ACROSS THE WORLD IS ON
THE ONE HAND OF COURSE AN
EMBRACE OF LOCAL CONSUMPTION AND
OF KNOWING YOUR FARMER AND
KNOWING YOUR FOOD.
ON THE OTHER HAND, IT CELEBRATES
A CERTAIN KIND OF CHAUVINISM OR
IT CAN SHOW A CERTAIN KIND OF
CHAUVINISM.
YOU HAVE RADICAL FARMERS AND
PEOPLE WHO HATE FOREIGNERS
COMING TOGETHER SAYING FOR
EXAMPLE THE TRANS-PACIFIC
PARTNERSHIP IS A BAD IDEA.
THERE NEEDS TO BE WITHIN THE
FOOD MOVEMENT A WAY OF PUSHING
AWAY THAT CHAUVINISM AND PUSHING
AWAY NATIONAL SOLIDARITY.
I WANT TO SEE MORE OF THAT WORK
HAPPENING.
OTHERWISE THE IDEA OF MAKING
SURE THAT YOUR FOOD IS CLEAN AND
HIGH GENIC AND COMES FROM A
PLACE THAT YOU TRUST, IT IS
EXACTLY WHAT DONALD TRUMP DOES
HAVING HIS CHICKEN BUCKET ON THE
AIRPLANE.
YOU REMEMBER THAT FAMOUS TWEET
OF HIM LOOKING AS ORANGE AS THE
CHICKEN HE'S ABOUT TO EAT.
AND IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT MOMENT
BAYS OF THE IDEA OF FOOD HYGIENE
HISTORICALLY HAS FOUND A PLACE
NEXT TO IDEAS OF RACIAL HYGIENE
AND OTHER KINDS OF HYGIENE.
FOR EXAMPLE IN BRITAIN THERE'S
AN INTERESTING SHOW CALLED ROGUE
RESTAURANTS WHICH BEGAN WITH A
SORT OF BEHIND THE SCENES LOOK
AT, YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE WHAT
THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING BEHIND
THE SCENES AT YOUR REGULAR
RESTAURANTS THEY AREN'T WASHING
THEIR HANDS AND THE SALAD WAS
LEFT OUT FOR THREE-DAYS.
AFTER THE BREAK IMMIGRATION
THING HAPPENS.
THEY KICKOFF
AND THEY DISCOVER
THEY ARE COMING IN ILLEGALLY.
FROM FOOD HYGIENE TO NATIONAL
HYGIENE.
NATIONAL HYGIENE WAS DONE LIKE
THAT.
THAT SEEMS TO ME TO BE A VERY
DANGEROUS MOMENT IN THE FOOD
INDUSTRY.
I CAN FIND SOMETHING TO
CELEBRATE FROM THE WITHDRAWING
OF THE TRANS-PACIFIC
PARTNERSHIP.
AROUND ASIA FARMERS WERE
PROTESTING AGAINST IT THEY
WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH THE
TPP BECAUSE IT WOULD IMPAIR
THEIR ACCESS TO THE MARKET.
THE WAY TRUMP CELLS IT IS NOT I
AM EMPOWERING FARMERS IN JAPAN.
HE'S VERY MUCH AMERICA FIRST.
THERE'S A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE
POLITICAL WORK AND WORK AROUND
SOLIDARITY TO BE ABLE TO HAVE
CLEAR BLUE WATER BETWEEN THE
RIGHT AND THE LEFT AROUND THESE
ISSUES OF LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY
AROUND FOOD.
- HE WAS EATING KFC WHICH IS A
GLOBAL BRAND.
I KNOW THE WHOLE HYGIENE THING,
HIS GERM PHOBE SEEMS TO BE
HYDRATING FOOD.
ONE WORLD ONE TASTE WAS THE
MCDONALDS SLOGAN AT THE TIME.
IT WAS A CONTRADICTION, TOO, HIS
SAVING FAST FOOD IS A GLOBAL
PRODUCT.
MCDONALDS HAMBURGER CAN HAVE 300
DIFFERENT INDIVIDUAL COWS
REPRESENTED IN THAT BURGER FROM
I THINK ERIC SCHLOSSER WITH THIS
RESEARCH FROM SIX DIFFERENT
COUNTRIES.
IT IS SORT OF AMERICA FIRST, BUT
AGAIN WITH A LITTLE MORE
TRANSPARENCY.
IT IS SOMETHING ELSE.
I AGREE WITH THE GENERAL POINT,
THE DIAGRAM GETS UNCOMFORTABLE.
LOOK OUR FOCUS HAS TO CHANGE
UNDER TRUMP.
IT IS NOT WHAT DIDN'T WORK
DURING OBAMA IS DEFINITELY NOT
GOING TO WORK DURING TRUMP.
I PUT A LOT OF EFFORT IN ON THE
IDEA OF PUTTING A NATIONAL FOOD
POLICY THAT WE HAVE A SECRETARY
OF FOOD OR SOMEBODY IN THE WHITE
HOUSE TO RIDE ROUGH SHOT OVER
THE FACT THAT WE HAVE GOT
AGRICULTURAL POLICIES THAT ARE
AT ODDS WITH OUR ENVIRONMENTAL
POLICIES, THAT ARE AT ODDS WITH
PUBLIC HEALTH POLICIES.
IT IS COMPLETELY INCOHERENT.
WE ARE ESSENTIALLY UNDERWRITING
BOTH SIDES THE WAR ON TYPE II
DIABETES WE ARE SUBSIDIZING THE
SUGARS.
IT IS CRAZY.
BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET
PROGRESS FROM TRUMP IN THAT WAY.
SO AS HAPPENED IN THE SOVIET
BLOCK IN THE 80'S, CIVIL SOCIETY
IS WHERE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE
HAPPENING.
THAT'S EVERYTHING FROM THE
MARKETPLACE WHICH DOES HAVE A
LOT OF POTENTIAL TO DRIVE
CHANGE, A LOT OF THE CHANGE WE
HAVE SEEN HAS BEEN CHANGE IN THE
MARKETPLACE.
NOT NECESSARILY THE WORK OF
ENLIGHTENED CAPITALISTS.
SOMETIMES THAT.
BUT ALSO THE WORK OF ENLIGHTENED
CONSUMERS WHO ARE ACTING AS
CITIZENS IN THE MARKETPLACE.
A LOT OF THE ALTERNATIVE FOOD
SYSTEM THAT HAS BEEN BUILT THE
PAST FEW YEARS SOMETHING LIKE
$50 BILLION HAS BEEN BUILT BY
CONSUMERS AND FARMERS ENTERING
INTO A KIND OF CONVERSATION.
I THINK THAT WILL CONTINUE AND
GET BIGGER.
THE ALTERNATIVE IS GROWING
QUICKLY.
THE ONLY PART OF THE FOOD
ECONOMY THAT IS GROWING, THEN
THERE'S OTHER KINDS OF ACTIVITY
THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.
IT IS VERY EXCITING.
THERE ARE LABOR MOVEMENTS.
YOU MET SARU AND YOU LEARNED
ABOUT THAT.
THE COALITION OF IMMOKALEE
WORKERS IS ONE OF THE MORE
EXCITING LABOR MOVEMENTS GOING
ON.
THE THIS IS AN EFFORT THAT BEGAN
IN FLORIDA, AND I WILL TELL THE
STORY IN A LITTLE BIT OF DETAIL.
I THINK IT IS SUGGESTIVE OF
STRATEGIES THAT WE NEED TO BE
THINKING OF, NEW STRATEGIES.
THE FARM LABOR MOVEMENT WAS
REALLY KIND OF DEAD OR DYING,
AND THE EFFORT TO UNIONIZE
FARMERS PRETTY MUCH FIZZLED OUT.
IN FLORIDA IT WAS A PARTICULARLY
HORRIBLE SITUATION.
YOU HAD TOMATO PICKERS WHO WERE
PICKING THE NATION'S WINTER
TOMATO CROP.
MOST OF THAT WAS GROWN IN
FLORIDA.
THEY WERE PAID PENNIES A POUND.
SOME WERE ENSLAVED THEY WERE
BROUGHT INTO THIS COUNTRY
ILLEGALLY THEIR PASSPORTS WERE
TAKEN AWAY THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO
LEAVE THEIR EMPLOYERS.
THE SLAVERY WAS DOCUMENTED.
IT WAS GOING ON UP TO 10 YEARS
AGO.
VERY RECENTLY.
SOME OF THE TOMATO PICKERS, SOME
OF THE MEN TEAMED UP WITH
SOMEONE NAMED GREG NESBIT WHO
WAS INTERESTED IN ORGANIZING.
HE WAS A BROWN UNIVERSITY
ORGANIZER.
THEY TRIED TO GET A PENNY PER
POUND INCREASE FOR THE PAY OF
TOMATO PICKERS.
HE CAME AND SPOKE WITH THE CLASS
A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
THEY TRIED STRIKING.
THE GROWERS WOULDN'T BUDGE.
THEY TRIED A HUNGER STRIKE.
THE GROWERS WOULDN'T BUDGE.
THEY TRIED MARCHING ACROSS THE
STATE.
THE GROWERS WOULDN'T BUDGE.
THEN HE SAID WE FOUND THE
UNDEFENDED DOOR IN THE CASTLE.
WHAT WAS THAT DOOR?
IS THE DOOR WAS THE BRAND.
THE CORPORATE BRAND.
INSTEAD OF GOING AFTER THE
PACKERS THE PEOPLE BOUGHT THE
TOMATOES AND SOLD THEM TO BURGER
KING OR WAL-MART, THEY WENT
RIGHT AFTER WAL-MART AND BURGER
KING, EVEN THOUGH THE WORKERS
DIDN'T WORK FOR THESE COMPANIES.
WHAT THEY DID WAS SHAME THE
COMPANIES THROUGH A SERIES OF
PUBLIC ACTIONS AND BOYCOTTS AND
THEY AT CAL EVENTS IN FRONT OF
THEIR RESTAURANTS, AND EVEN
SHAMED THEIR BANKERS IN NEW
YORK.
I REMEMBER ERIC SCHLOSSER WROTE
A WONDERFUL OP ED PIECE WHERE
BURGER KING WAS HOLDING OUT --
LET ME BACK UP.
WHAT THE COALITION WAS ASKING
THE COMPANIES TO DO WAS NOT EVEN
TO NEGOTIATE WITH THEM, BUT TO
SIGN ON TO A PLEDGE, SOMETHING
CALLED THE FAIR FOOD AGREEMENT.
THEY JUST PUT OUT WHAT THEY
WANTED AND IT HAD TO DO WITH
WORKER RIGHTS AND HAD TO DO WITH
FIT WITH PAY AND THEY PUSHED
EVERYBODY IN THE MARKETPLACE TO
SIGN ON TO THIS AGREEMENT.
BURGER KING WAS A HOLD OUT.
THEY GOT MCDONALDS FAIRLY
QUICKLY AND THEY WERE KNOCKING
DOWN EACH FAST FOOD COMPANY AND
GROCERY CHAIN, AND BURGER KING,
WHICH WAS OWNED BY A PRIVATE
EQUITY COMPANY WHOSE CHAIRMAN
LIVED IN NEW YORK, ERIC FIGURED
OUT IT WAS SOME PERSON GOING TO
A DINNER PARTY ON A SATURDAY
NIGHT.
WROTE AN OP ED PIECE ABOUT THIS
GUY WAS SUPPORTING SLAVERY
HUMILIATED THEM IN THE SOCIAL
CIRCLE AND BURGER KING MOVED.
THESE ARE UNCONVENTIONAL ACTIONS
BUT THE COALITION'S MODEL OF
FIGURING OUT A STANDARD AND THEN
PUSHING BRANDS TO ADAPT IT, THE
ACHILLES -- AS LUCAS SAID WHEN
HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE
UNDEFENDED DOOR, THE ACHILLES
HEEL OF AMERICAN CONSUMER
CAPITALISM IS THE BRAND.
COMPANIES WILL DO MORE TO DEFEND
THEIR BRAND -- THEY CARE MORE
ABOUT THAT THAN THE REGULATION
AND A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS.
THIS IS THEIR MAIN ASSET, THE
BIG MAC, YOU KNOW, COCA-COLA,
ALL OF THESE THINGS.
A NUMBER IT OF ACTIVIST GROUPS
HAVE FIGURED THIS OUT.
THEY SYSTEMATICALLY HAVE GONE
AFTER BRANDS.
THEY FIGURED THIS OUT WITH
ANIMAL WARFARE.
THAT'S THE WHOLE AREA WHERE
WORKING BE DONE, IMPORTANT
WORKING BE DONE.
IT STANDS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN
CONSUMER ACTIVISM AND CITIZEN
ACTIVISM.
IT IS IN THIS NEW ZONE WHERE THE
CONSUMER IS ACTING NOT ONLY ON
HIS OR HER BEHALF BUT IN A
POLITICAL WAY BY BOYCOTTING A
COMPANY OR SUPPORTING ANOTHER
COMPANY.
WE ARE SEEING THAT WITH TRUMP
NOW LOTS OF GRAND RAPIDS HAVE
COME UNDER ATTACK FROM
CONSUMER/CITIZENS.
WILL IT IS NOT THE ANSWER TO
EVERYTHING, BECAUSE CONSUMERS
CAN VOTE WITH THEIR DOLLARS, BUT
NOT EVERYBODY CAN.
- ANOTHER EDGE TO THAT IS TO SEE
SOME OF THESE ENTREPRENEURIAL
COMPANIES LIKE THE BACK TO THE
ROOTS GUYS FOR EXAMPLE.
I REMEMBER A FEW YEARS AGO YOU
GAVE THE KEYNOTE AT THE NATIONAL
PRODUCTS SHOW.
YOU SORT OF SHAMED THAT GROUP IN
THE WAY OF SAYING, WHAT IS
NATURAL ABOUT THESE 40
INGREDIENTS THAT I CAN'T
PRONOUNCE ON YOUR NATURAL AND
ORGANIC PACKAGED PRODUCTS.
- THAT WAS A HORRIFYING TRIP.
- ALICE WAS THERE.
SHE SAID HELP.
- BACK TO THE ROOTS GUYS, THEY
HAVE FIVE INGREDIENTS ON THE
CEREAL PACKAGE.
THEY ARE SORT OF DRIVING A
LITTLE BIT OF A WEDGE IN THE
FACE OF THOSE BIG COMPANIES.
NOW PEOPLE ARE RESPONDING TO
THAT.
>> IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO
WATCH.
COMPANIES LIKE BACK TO THE ROOTS
WHO SAT IN CLASSROOMS LIKE THIS
NOT VERY LONG AGO HAVE PUT
FORWARD THESE VALUES ON THESE
PRODUCTS OF SUPPORTING
INDIVIDUAL FARMERS, OF
SIMPLICITY OF FORMULATION,
THERE'S NO CHEMICALS.
THERE'S NO INGREDIENTS YOU DON'T
RECOGNIZE.
AND WE WILL SEE HOW FAR THAT CAN
GO.
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WE
STARTED, BUT THE FATE OF THESE
WONDERFUL LITTLE SUSTAINABLE
START-UPS IS TO GET GOBBLED UP
BY BIG FOOD.
AND IS THAT A TRAGEDY?
I DON'T THINK SO.
I THINK IT IS MORE COMPLICATED
THAN THAT.
I THINK IN THE END THAT IS OFTEN
HOW CHANGE COMES IN AMERICA, THE
CO-OPTING OF THE FRINGE.
I THINK WE WILL SEE A LOT OF
THAT.
THE CHALLENGE I THINK IS KEEPING
THE DNA OF THESE COMPANIES IN
TACT ONCE THEY HAVE BEEN
ABSORBED.
THAT CAN BE VERY DIFFICULT TO
DO.
WE HAVE SEEN BEN AND JERRY'S.
IT WAS A VERY PROGRESSIVE
COMPANY.
GOT BOUGHT BY UNILEVER.
TRIED TO PRESERVE SOME OF THE
VALUES BECAUSE IT WAS PART OF
THEIR BRAND.
WHEN THEY BECOME PART OF THE
BRAND YOU CAN CHEAT TRANSPARENCY
BECOMES AN ISSUE.
THERE'S A LOT OF BACK SLIDING
WITH BEN AND JERRY'S.
THERE'S A MOVEMENT NOW A FOOT
BECAUSE THE COALITION OF
IMMOKALEE WORKERS IS INVOLVED.
THE MOVEMENT TO PUSH BEN AND
JERRY'S.
WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENED.
- ONE OF THE BIG FIGHTS WAS LAST
YEAR OR THE YEAR BEFORE AROUND
GM LABELLING.
CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
THAT?
BASICALLY THERE WAS A CONSUMER
PUSH JUST TO SAY JUST LABEL IT
THEN THE GROCERY MANUFACTURER'S
ASSOCIATION AND SEVERAL OTHERS
SPENT LOTS OF MONEY AND THEY
WERE SORT OF A FRONT SO THEY
DIDN'T HAVE TO REPORT ALL OF THE
BIG COMPANIES THAT WERE
CONTRIBUTING TO IT.
- THEY TRIED NOT TO.
THERE WAS ANOTHER TRANSPARENCY
ISSUE.
SO THERE'S BEEN A MOVEMENT FOR
MANY YEARS TO LABEL GENETICALLY
MODIFIED FOOD SO PEOPLE COULD
DECIDE WHETHER TO EAT THEM OR
NOT.
THEY HAVE TO HAVE A LABEL ON THE
BOX.
THIS MOVEMENT HAS PICKED UP A
LOT OF SUPPORT.
THERE HAVE BEEN VOTES.
THERE HAVE BEEN VOTES IN
CALIFORNIA AND THERE HAVE BEEN
VOTES IN I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY
STATES TO SIMPLY SAY THAT
GENETICALLY MODIFIED FOOD HAS TO
BE LABELED.
THIS IS AN ENORMOUS THREAT TO
THE FOOD INDUSTRY, PROCESSED
FOOD INDUSTRY IN PARTICULAR SODA
COMPANIES.
THEY FOUGHT IT TOOTH AND NAIL.
THEY SPENT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS
BUT THEY TRADE TO HIDE.
THEY PUT THESE COMPANIES IN AN
AWKWARD POSITION OF SUPPORTING
SOMETHING THAT THEIR CONSUMERS
OVERWHELMINGLY DIDN'T WANT.
THAT IS NOT A COMFORTABLE PLACE
FOR A CONSUMER GOODS COMPANY TO
BE.
BUT IN THE END -- I DON'T KNOW
IF IT IS THE END.
SO FAR THEY PREVAILED.
THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION RIGHT
AT THE END CAME UP WITH WHAT
THEY THOUGHT OF AS A COMPROMISE.
THEY PROMISED TO LABEL
GENETICALLY MODIFIED FOOD AS A
CANDIDATE IN IOWA FOR ONE DAY
AND SOMEBODY EXPLAINED TO THEM
THAT YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
HE WAS SYMPATHETIC TO THE IDEA.
HE WAS SYMPATHETIC TO THE IDEA
OF TRANSPARENCY WHICH IS ALL
THIS WAS ABOUT.
THEY CAME UP WITH A COMPROMISE
WHERE FOOD WOULD BE LABELED, BUT
THE LABELS WOULDN'T BE ON THE
PACKAGE.
THEY WOULD BE HIDDEN BEHIND,
THERE'S A GREAT TRANSPARENCY, A
CODE.
A QR CODE ON THE PACKAGE THAT NO
HUMAN BEING CAN INTERPRET, BUT A
COMPUTER CAN OR A SMARTPHONE
CAN.
YOU CAN HOLD UP YOUR SMARTPHONE
IF YOU WERE WEALTHY ENOUGH TO
OWN A SMARTPHONE AND FIND OUT IF
THAT WAS INDEED A GENETICALLY
MODIFIED CROP OR NOT.
THAT'S WHERE THE ISSUE STANDS
NOW.
IT MAY NOT BE OVER.
- WHAT IS TRANSPARENCY?
I AM CURIOUS NOW.
WE HAVE BEEN USING IT IN SO MANY
DIFFERENT WAYS.
I AM WONDERING IF YOU CAN --
- IT IS FASCINATING.
JUST TO COMMENT ON THAT, TODAY I
SAW IN THE BUSINESS PRESS,
THERE'S A FARMER TO BUSINESS
NETWORK THAT IS A PLATFORM THAT
IS TALKING ABOUT TRANSPARENCY
FOR FARMERS.
ACTUALLY THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT
PRICE TRANSPARENCY.
THERE WAS A WAY I SAW
TRANSPARENCY CREEPING INTO THE
SUSTAINABILITY SPACE WHERE IT
MEANS SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
IN THIS CLASS IN THIS SEMESTER
WE HAVE BEEN ALMOST THINKING
ABOUT IT AS A SUPER POWER THAT
WE COULD EACH DEVELOP
INDIVIDUALLY AS A WAY OF KIND OF
BRINGING A SKEPTICAL MIND AND A
RIGOROUS APPROACH TO PEERING
THROUGH THE OPACITY.
WE HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT
TO BE ABLE TO TRACE THINGS BACK
AND FORTH TO WHERE THEY COME AND
HOW THEY COME AND REALLY
UNDERSTANDING ALL OF THOSE
INTERDEPENDENCIES.
- THE REASON I AM ASKING IS
BECAUSE AT SOME LEVEL YOU CAN
NOW GO INTO A STORE AND FIND GMO
FREE SALT.
- OR GLUTEN FREE SALT.
- HOW IS IT YOU COULD BUY GMO
FREE SALT?
IS YOU WOULD JUST BE BUYING SALT
FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST.
THE IDEA OF A GMO FREE LABEL ON
SOMETHING ISN'T NECESSARILY A
WAY OF USING ANYTHING.
RIGHT?
GLUTEN FREE SALT OR ORGANIC
SALT, THERE ARE WAYS IN WHICH AN
ARRAY OF LABEL PURPORTING TO
TELL YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THE
ORIGINS OF YOUR FOOD ARE THERE
TO MAKE YOU CRY.
BECAUSE YOU HAVE SO MANY OF
THESE THINGS TO READ.
AT SOME LEVEL YOU ARE LOOKING
FOR THE TRUSTED SOURCE.
WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE COALITION
OF IMMOKALEE WORKERS IS THAT
THEY -- IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT
GETTING THE SIGN ON TO THE FAIR
FOOD AGREEMENT, BUT THEY SET UP
AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS
INDEPENDENT TO THE COALITION
THAT HAS A FORMER FEDERAL JUDGE
WHO ARBITRATES CASES.
IT IS VERY INTERESTING.
I WORRY ON THE ONE HAND, A SORT
OF SHADOW GOVERNMENT BECAUSE IT
IS UNACCOUNTABLE IT IS UTTERLY
UNELECTED AND STRANGE
GOVERNMENT.
EVERYONE SUBMITS THE CASES TO,
YOU HOPE THE JUSTICE WILL EMERGE
FROM IT IN THE SAME WAY THE
WORLD ORGANIZATION COURTS ARE
THE STRANGE KIND OF PSEUDO
GOVERNMENTAL AUTHORITIES THAT
HAVE THE FINAL SAY.
I LIKE IT BECAUSE, AND I LEARNED
THIS FROM LUCAS, THAT IT IS ALL
VERY WELL IN CALIFORNIA.
THEY SAY NO WE WILL GET THE
GOVERNMENT DO THIS AND LET THE
GOVERNMENT BE THE FINAL
ARBITRATOR OF WHAT IS FAIR AND
JUST IN THE FIELD.
YOU LIVE IN A RED STATE.
WHEN YOU LIVE IN FLORIDA AND YOU
TRY, YOU MARCH UP AND DOWN, THE
LEGISLATURE WON'T LISTEN TO YOU,
THEN ACTUALLY THE GOVERNMENT
ISN'T YOUR GOVERNMENT.
IT CAN BE A VERY EMPOWERING
THING TO DO.
NOW THAT I LIVE IN TEXAS AND I
HAVE A LICENSE TO SAY YA'LL, I
AM -- I AM INCREDIBLY
SYMPATHETIC TO THE IDEA THAT OUR
TEXAS LEGISLATURE IS NOT GOING
TO GET ANYTHING DONE.
SETTING UP A MECHANISM WHERE BY
A CERTIFICATION, A LABEL CAN BE
SOME SAFEGUARD OF NOT
TRANSPARENCY BUT BASIC DECENCY
WOULD BE A GOOD THING.
THAT'S WHY I WORRY ABOUT
TRANSPARENCY.
IT'S THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE ELSE
IS, WE ARE HANDING OFF TO
SOMEONE ELSE THE SUPER POWER AND
ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS CHECK THE
BOX AND MAKE SURE IT IS OKAY.
WE CAN GO ABOUT OUR BUSINESS.
IT MAKES SLOUCHES OF US.
I WORRIED THE TRANSPARENCY IS
THE OPPOSITE OF THE SUPER POWER.
IT IS A KNUCKLES DRAGGING WAY OF
THE COMPLEX NATURE OF OUR FOOD.
- I KNEW YOU WOULD PROBLEM-TIZE
TRANSPARENCY.
ANY KIND OF LABELLING SCHEME IS
A SECOND, THIRD OR FOURTH BEST
TO ACTUALLY KNOWING -- HAVING
SEEN THE PROCESS, HAVING BEEN TO
THE FARM, HAVING MET THE FARMER.
SOME OF THE BEST FARMERS IN THIS
COUNTRY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN
LABELLING SCHEMES, BECAUSE THEY
THINK THEY ARE DOING BETTER THAN
A LABELER.
THEY HAVE -- THEY CAN TELL THE
STORY.
THE PROBLEM IS WE ARE IN THIS
VERY COMPLICATED INDUSTRIAL
CIVILIZATION WHERE WE HAVE TO
DEPEND ON PROXIES ALL OF THE
TIME.
WE AGREE A LOT OF LABELS ARE
BOGUS.
THE GMO FREE IS ONE OF THE GREAT
BREAK DOWN SCHEMES EVER.
IF YOU WANT TO BE IN WHOLE FOODS
YOU HAVE TO PAY THIS THIRD PARTY
ORGANIZATION A LOT OF MONEY TO
GET THE GMO FREE ON YOUR SALT
EVEN THOUGH THERE IS NO SUCH
THING AS GMO SALT.
THE GMO, THE CONSUMER OBSESSION
WITH GMO IS PROBLEMATIC, TOO.
THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES
IN THE SUPERMARKET AND IN THE
FIELDS I THINK.
BUT AT SOME POINT UNDER SOME
CIRCUMSTANCES WE NEED TO DEPEND
ON LABELS.
I THINK ON BALANCE THE ORGANIC
LABEL, WHICH IS A GOVERNMENT
LABEL HAS BEEN A POSITIVE THING.
EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE A LOT OF
ORGANIC FARMERS WHO DON'T LIKE
IT, THERE IS A CONSTANT PRESSURE
AS SOON AS YOU PUT IT IN THE
GOVERNMENT IT'S SUBJECT TO
POLITICAL FORCES.
THERE'S A LOT OF LOBBYING OVER
WHAT SHOULD AND SHOULDN'T BE
INCLUDED.
BUT IN A WORLD WHERE THERE ARE A
LOT OF FAKE LABELS YOU CAN RELY
ON THE ORGANIC LABEL, IT MEANS A
LOT MORE ON WHAT OTHER LABELS
THERE ARE OUT THERE.
TO THE EXTENT YOU HAVE THE
AGRICULTURE AT THE LARGE SCALE
IF YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO LOTS
OF SMALL FARMS AND DIRECT
CONTACT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE
FOOD MANUFACTURERS AND FOOD
COMPANIES SOME OF THEM WANT TO
BUY ORGANIC YOU NEED TO HAVE A
NATIONAL LABEL EVERYONE AGREES
ON AND THIS IS SUPPORTING A
BETTER AGRICULTURE AND KEEPING A
CERTAIN NUMBER OF PESTICIDES OUT
OF THE FOOD SUPPLY.
IT IS A MIXED BAG.
I AM A JOURNALIST.
YOU HAVE A PHASE IN
TRANSPARENCY.
OUR WHOLE ENTERPRISE IS BASED ON
THE IDEA THAT GIVING PEOPLE MORE
INFORMATION WILL LEAD TO BETTER
DECISIONS.
IT IS NOT ALWAYS TRUE.
BUT IT OFTEN IS.
I HAVE SEEN IT IN CHANGES IN THE
FOOD SYSTEM.
WHEN PEOPLE READ AN ARTICLE
ABOUT HOW BRUTAL THE CHICKEN
INDUSTRY IS OR THE BEEF INDUSTRY
IS, MANY PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR
BEHAVIOR AND CORPORATIONS CHANGE
THE BEHAVIOR, TOO.
THE EXPOSÉ HAS DRIVEN SOME
POSITIVE CHANGE.
IN GENERAL EXPOSURE IS BETTER
THAN NON EXPOSURE.
IT IS NOT SUFFICIENT.
IT IS NECESSARY BUT NOT
SUFFICIENT.
- ARE YOU CHANGING YOUR A
APPROACH OR GAME PLAN AT ALL
WITH YOUR JOURNALISM STUDENTS
NOW IN THIS ERA?
IS ARE WE SORT OF GAMING UP FOR
A DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT IN
JOURNALISM?
- THAT IS A VERY ACTIVE
CONVERSATION IN JOURNALISM.
YOU CAN SEE IT IN THE PAGES OF
NEW YORK TIMES OR "WASHINGTON
POST".
THE GENERAL SENSE IS WE ARE IN
AN EMERGENCY AND PEOPLE ARE --
JOURNALISM SEEMS TO BE FALLING
AWAY.
I THINK IT IS PROBABLY A GOOD
TIME.
IT IS PROBABLY A GOOD TIME FOR
JOURNALISM.
THE REPUTATION OF JOURNALISTS
AND LAWYERS ARE REHABILITATED
THE LAST FEW MONTHS.
THAT IS GENERALLY A POSITIVE
THING.
BUT JOURNALISM HAS A VERY
IMPORTANT ROLE TO PLAY.
THERE'S NO QUESTION IN
ATTEMPTING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT
THE TRUTH IS AND STICKING TO
THAT CONCEPT, THAT OLD FASHIONED
CONCEPT.
- RAJ YOU HAVE WOVEN TOGETHER
THIS LIFE OF BEING AN ACTIVIST,
AN ACADEMIC, A WRITER, TALK TO
US ABOUT HOW YOU THOUGHT ABOUT
YOUR OWN PAST, THE DIFFERENT
EXPERIENCES, WHERE YOU ARE NOW
AND WHERE YOU WANT TO PLACE
YOURSELF AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME
FOR GREAT ESTEEM PACK OR
FULFILLMENT?
- A HANDFUL.
I MEAN, I CERTAINLY THINK IF WE
ARE INTERESTED IN SOCIAL CHANGE
AND THINKING BIG IDEAS, ONE OF
THE HARDEST THINGS IS BELIEVING
THAT CHANGE IS POSSIBLE.
YEAH, THE ACTIVIST LINE IS MOST
PEOPLE CAN IMAGINE THE END OF
THE WORLD BEFORE THEY CAN
IMAGINE THE END OF CAPITALISM.
IT IS FAR EASIER TO IMAGINE
LIVING IN MAD MAX'S WORLD BUT
STILL HAVING CREDIT CARDS.
ACTUALLY, THE IDEA OF SEEING
WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO LIVE IN
A WORLD WHERE PROFITS WASN'T
DRIVING EVERY DECISION IS JUST
REALLY HARD FOR US.
WE HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP ON THAT
IDEA, AND SO PART OF THE WORK
THAT I AM -- I FIND MOST
FRUITFUL IS DOING ACTIVE SORT OF
FIELD RESEARCH ON THIS QUESTION
AND WITH PEOPLE WITH ACTIVISTS
WHO ARE LIVING DIFFERENT LIVES.
AND WHERE THAT IS IN MALAWI OR
WHETHER IN OAKLAND, WE ARE
WORKING, MY -- WE ARE ORBING ON
A TRANSMEDIA PROJECT LOOKING AT
HOW IN WEST OAKLAND IT IS
POSSIBLE FOR THE MOVEMENTS THAT
STARTED WITH THE BLACK PANTHERS,
THE BLACK PANTHERS, REAL PASSION
FOR FOOD.
THEY STARTED THE SCHOOL
BREAKFAST PROGRAM THE SCHOOL
LUNCH PROGRAM, THEY CHANGED THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT INTO PAYING
FOR SCHOOL LUMPS.
MAJORITY OF BLACK PANTHERS WERE
WOMEN.
ALTHOUGH HISTORY TENDS NOT TO
RECORD THEIR ACTIVISM, WEST
OAKLAND, THEY LACK FOR RADICAL
INFORMATION OF WHAT AMERICA
MIGHT LOOK LIKE WHEN FOOD IS
DONE DIFFERENTLY.
THAT MEANS TELLING THE STORIES.
NOT JUST DOING THE RESEARCH AND
PUBLISHING THE PAPERS, BUT ALSO
GETTING, YOU KNOW, GETTING THE
STORIES OUT THERE IN WAYS THAT
PEOPLE CAN USE.
ONE DAY I WILL BE ABLE TO WRITE
AS WELL AS MICHAEL.
BUT UNTIL THEN WE HAVE YOUTUBE,
AND SO A LOT OF OUR WORK IS
AROUND CREATING VIDEOS THAT CAN
BE USED BY ORGANIZATIONS THAT
MEET ONCE A WEEK.
WE ARE FINDING WHAT WE ARE
TRYING OUT AND FOLLOWING A
NUMBER OF ORGANIZATIONS, MEDIA
ORGANIZATIONS, IT IS GREAT TO
HAVE YOUR VIDEO OUT THERE AND
YOU CAN HOPE THAT IT GOES VIRAL.
BUT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT IS THAT
IT GETS SHARED AND USED FOR
ORGANIZING.
WHAT ABOUT THE ORGANIZATIONS
THAT MEET ONCE A WEEK.
CHURCHES AND FAITH BASED GROUPS,
COOPERATIVES, UNIONS, THESE ARE
PLACES IN WHICH YOU CAN VERSION
YOUR SCHOLARSHIP AND YOUR WORK
TO FIT THOSE GROUPS.
YOU CAN HELP THEM ORGANIZE IN
WAYS.
TELLING STORIES FROM OAKLAND AND
MALAWI IN WAYS THAT IT CAN GET
USED AS OPPOSED TO MAKING IT
PUBLIC.
HOPEFULLY BY THE END OF THE
YEAR.
- WE WILL PUT THAT IN NEXT
YEAR'S COURSE.
- LOOK UP GENERATION FOOD.
- WHO HAS A QUESTION FROM FOR
MICHAEL?
CAN WE GET THE MICROPHONE OVER
HERE?
- ON THE SUBJECT OF WHEN.
I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL THERE.
I AM FROM OAKLAND.
I HAVE BEEN KIND OF THINKING
ABOUT THIS, THE WHOLE CLASS,
IT'S INTERESTING.
IT'S A GREAT CLASS.
HOW IS THE FOOD MOVEMENT GOING
TO GET DEMOCRATIZED.
HOW WILL IT BE THE FAD MOVEMENT
FOR MASSES OF PEOPLE WHO WON'T
GO TO THE FARMER'S MARKET OR
MORE IMPORTANTLY THERE'S A
DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE
FINANCIAL BENEFIT OF OKAY I MAKE
13 AN HOUR NOW FOR WORKING AT
MCDONALDS.
WHAT AM I GOING TO EAT FOR
DINNER WHEN I GET HOME.
THERE'S THIS CULTURAL PERCEPTION
THIS FOOD MOVEMENT IS FOR RICH
WHITE FOLKS.
I WENT TO A HIGH SCHOOL THAT
STILL HAS A PROGRAM STARTED BY
THE BLACK PANTHERS AND THE FOOD
WE GET IN THE MORNING OR WE
COULD GET IN THE MORNING WASN'T
NECESSARILY THAT GREAT.
IT IS STILL FOOD.
YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCES OF
CLASS AND RACE IN A TWO BLOCK
RADIUS.
ONE BLOCK OF STUDENTS SHOPS ONE
PLACE THE OTHER GROUP OF
STUDENTS GETS $4 COFFEE AT BLUE
BOTTLE.
THE OTHER GROUP GETS NACHO
CHEESE SAUCE AND THAT'S THE
LUNCH.
THAT'S A FINANCIAL DIFFERENCE.
IT IS ALSO A CULTURAL
DIFFERENCE.
HOW ARE YOU GOING TO BREAK THIS
VERY ENGRAINED CULTURE THAT SAYS
THE FOOD MOVEMENT AND THIS TYPE
OF FOOD AND GOOD FOOD AND
COOKING AT HOME IS ONLY FOR A
CERTAIN GROUP OF PEOPLE.
- I KNOW YOU WANT MICHAEL AND
RAJ TO ANSWER THAT.
I CAN'T HELP MYSELF.
WE REALLY HAVE TO DO IT IN THE
PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.
WE HAVE TO GET EVERY CHILD A
FREE SCHOOL LUNCH, AND WE HAVE
TO BUY THAT FOOD FROM THE PEOPLE
WHO TAKE CARE OF THE LAND.
WE HAVE TO BRING CHILDREN INTO A
NEW RELATIONSHIP TO FOOD AND TO
NATURE.
I THINK REALLY THE MOST
EFFECTIVE WAY TO DO THAT IS TO
MAKE SCHOOL LUNCH AN ACADEMIC
SUBJECT, TO TEACH THAT HISTORY
OF INDIA ALONG THE SILK ROAD AND
EAT YOUR DOLL AND HAVE YOUR
WHOLE GRAIN.
DIVEST THE CULTURES OF THE WORLD
ALONG WITH YOUR ACADEMICS.
I DON'T SEE ANY BETTER WAY TO
RAPIDLY CHANGE THE FOOD SYSTEM
THAN TO HAVE THE MONEY FROM
SCHOOL GO DIRECTLY TO THE
FARMERS WHO TAKE CARE OF THE
LAND.
NOW I KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO ASK,
WHERE DO YOU GET THE MONEY TO
PAY FOR THAT.
BUT WE HAVE TO IMAGINE IT FIRST.
WE HAVE TO REALLY THINK TOGETHER
ABOUT HOW WE CAN MAKE THAT
HAPPEN.
BUT THAT'S THE ONLY WAY, THE
ONLY SOCIAL JUSTICE WAY THAT WE
CAN REALLY FEED PEOPLE NOURISH
THEM AND REALLY OPEN THEIR EYES
TO WHERE THE FOOD COMES FROM IS
WHEN THEY ARE ACTIVELY ENGAGED
IN THE GARDEN AND THEY ARE
SMELLING IT AND THEY ARE TASTING
IT AND THEY ARE WORKING IN IT.
OTHERWISE IT'S AN ABSTRACT.
I THINK UNTIL YOU DO THE WORK OF
THE FARMER AND GOD KNOWS YOU
KNOW MICHAEL, THAT YOU AREN'T
ABLE TO IDENTIFY WITH WHY FOOD
NEEDS TO BE PRECIOUS AND NOT
WASTED.
BUT WHEN YOU DO THAT WORK OF
PICKING THE BEANS, YOU WANT TO
PAY THAT FARMER.
THEY ARE DELICIOUS BEANS.
YOU WANT TO PAY THE FARMER WHAT
IT NEEDS TO BE PAID TO DO THAT
WORK.
THAT'S JUST MY ANSWER.
GO AHEAD, MICHAEL.
- I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE
PUBLIC SCHOOLS DEMOCRATIZED.
THE IDEA OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS,
WHICH BY THE WAY IS UNDER THREAT
RIGHT NOW.
THE IT IS ONE OF THE MANY
EMERGENCIES WE FACE.
BUT THAT IS HOW YOU EXTEND
BENEFITS TO EVERYBODY ON AN
EQUAL BASIS.
I AM SURE FREE LUNCHES, FREE
BREAKFAST IN THE SCHOOLS ARE
LESS THAN BUILDING A WALL ON THE
MEXICAN BORDER.
DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT WOULD BE
IF YOU HAVE DONE THAT
CALCULATION?
PER DAY.
DO WE HAVE ANY BUSINESS STUDENTS
WHO CAN PLAY THAT OUT TO A YEAR?
IT'S A GOOD PROJECT TO FIGURE IT
OUT.
- YEAH.
- I THINK THERE ARE SO MANY
ELEMENTS TO THAT QUESTION.
ONE IS THE CULTURAL ASSOCIATION
WITH FAST FOOD.
THE FACT THAT EVEN OBAMA HAD TO
GO EAT CRAPPY HAMBURGERS AS A
GOOD AMERICAN POLITICIAN.
FAST FOOD HAMBURGERS.
THEY K NOTE EVERY MAN AND WOMAN,
THEY ARE A MARKER HOW YOU EAT.
PRESIDENTS ALWAYS EAT DOWN.
THEY EAT DIFFERENTLY IN THE
WHITE HOUSE THAN THEY DO WHEN
THEY GO OUTSIDE.
TRUMP OBVIOUSLY MADE A BIG SHOW
OF HIS TACO BOWLS AND HIS KFC.
I AM SURE IT WON HIM VOTES.
I THINK HE REALLY EATS THAT WAY.
I DON'T THINK HE WAS PUTTING ON
A SHOW.
I THINK THE FOOD MOVEMENT IS
EXQUISITELY SENSITIVE TO THE
CRITICISM THAT YOU SO ELOQUENTLY
LAID OUT.
THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS YOU
SEE MOVEMENT IN THE LAST FEW
YEARS.
PUSHED BY PEOPLE LIKE RAJ
AND
ERIC SCHLOSSER.
THE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO
EAT HEALTHY FOOD IN AMERICA ARE
WORKING IN THE FOOD SYSTEM
FEEDING US, THOSE WHO CAN IT IS
A PUBLIC SHAME.
I THINK YOU ARE SEEING THE
MOVEMENT TRYING HARD TO
DEMOCRATIZE THEMSELVES.
IT IS GOING TO BE -- THESE
SOCIAL SIGNALS, I THINK IN A IS
GOING TO BE INTERESTING.
YOU MAY SEE IT AS YOU MOVE
TOWARD THIS YOU HAVE THE HEALTHY
FAST FOOD RIGHT NOW IT IS A HOT
CATEGORY AND YOU HAVE SWEETGREEN
ON SHATTUCK AND THERE'S
SOMETHING ELSE DOWNTOWN.
THESE THINGS ARE POPPING UP
EVERY WHERE.
IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF
THAT IMAGERY COULD CHANGE, THAT
SYMBOLISM COULD CHANGE.
THERE'S NO QUESTION THERE IS
REAL WORK TO BE DONE.
IT STARTED AS A VERY ELITE
MOVEMENT.
AS A GREAT NUMBER OF MOVEMENTS
IN AMERICAN HISTORY HAS STARTED,
THE ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT,
ABOLITION MOVEMENT, I THINK THE
CHARGE IS DAMNING IF THEY REMAIN
ELITE FOR TOO MANY DECADES.
IT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUE,
YOU ARE CORRECT.
- REAL QUICK.
THE ORGANIZATION WAS STARTED BY
ANARCHISTS WHO ORGANIZED FARM
WORKERS TO RAISE THEIR WAGES AND
INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF TIME THEY
HAD TO BE ABLE TO ENJOY FOOD.
RIGHT AT THE HEART OF THAT WAS,
WE WILL WORK WITH THE POOREST
PEOPLE IN ITALIAN SOCIETY AND
MAKE SURE THEY GET PAID ENOUGH
TO BE ABLE TO DEMOCRATIZE
PLEASURE.
IN THE UNITED STATES THAT
RADICAL EDGE HAS BEEN BLUNTED
AND I AM EXCITED PEOPLE ARE
TRYING TO RECLAIM THAT.
IF THE FOOD MOVEMENT ISN'T
INTERESTED IN MAKING SURE
EVERYONE GETS TO EAT WELL, THERE
ARE ISSUES AROUND LIVING WAGE
FOR EXAMPLE TREMENDOUSLY
IMPORTANT.
BUT I ALSO THINK THE SCHOOL
SYSTEM IS IMPORTANT, BUT
UNFORTUNATELY THEY HAVE
INCREASINGLY SUGGESTED WHEN YOU
HAVE HEALTHY FOOD IN SCHOOL,
WHAT HAPPENS OVER THE WEEKEND
AND OVER VACATION IS PRETTY SAD
FOR THE KIDS WHO ARE ABLE TO EAT
DURING LUNCH TIME.
MAKING SURE PARENTS HAVE ENOUGH
MONEY TO BE ABLE TO SHOP AND EAT
WELL IS IMPORTANT.
AGAIN I THINK BASICALLY THE RULE
HERE IS BOTH RESIST AND CREATE
AN ALTERNATIVE.
RIGHT?
THE IDEA THAT THESE ARE LIKE TWO
BITS OF DNA CONJOINED.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE RESISTANCE
TO FOR EXAMPLE THE MARKETING OF
THE WORD HEALTHY.
IF SOMETHING CLAIMS TO BE
HEALTHY, IT IS.
OR IF IT IS -- IF IT SAYS
NATURALLY HEALTHY ON IT, IT IS
LIES.
WILL IT IS FAKE NEWS.
BUT THEN AT THE SAME TIME IF YOU
BREAK MARKETING YOU GET TO LEARN
ABOUT FOOD.
WHETHER THAT'S THE SCHOOL OR
WHETHER THAT'S SOMETHING MUCH
MORE EXPANDED, AGAIN THE STORY
FOLLOWING IS THE PEOPLE'S
COMMUNITY MARKET IN OAKLAND
WHICH ISN'T A ZONE OF PURITY.
IT IS GOING TO HAVE ORGANIC FOOD
AND KALE AND HIPPIE GREENS IN
THE FRONT THAT YOU LIKE BUT IT
WILL HAVE THE CHIPS IN THE BACK
SO PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THIS IS OUR
PLACE.
THERE WILL BE EDUCATION AND WAYS
TO MOVE FROM THE CHEETOS TO
SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE
THEMSELVES IN.
I WAS DOING WORK WITH REFUGEES
IN AUSTIN.
IN THE REFUGEE COMMUNITY IN
AUSTIN PEOPLE ARE EXCITED ABOUT
EATING HEALTHILY.
THE ONLY GREENS THEY REPORTEDLY
LIKED WAS BROCCOLI.
WHY DO YOU THINK?
WHY WOULD YOU -- WHY IS BROCCOLI
THE ONLY GREEN YOU WOULD REPORT
EATING?
EXACTLY.
IT IS THE ONLY THING YOU CAN
RECOGNIZE.
IF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN -- THOSE
OF YOU WHO ARE NOT FROM ASIA
HAVE BEEN TO AN ASIAN MARKET, IF
YOU HAVE EVEN LEAVES THAT ARE
STRANGE AND LIKE UTTERLY WEIRD
GREENS.
THAT IS THE EXPERIENCE OF COMING
TO THE UNITED STATES AND SEEING
KALE AND ALL OF THE THINGS WE
TAKE FOR GRANTED.
PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THESE
THINGS WERE.
THEY START WITH BROCCOLI.
THAT FEELING OF ALIENATION FROM
YOUR FOOD SYSTEM IS SOMETHING
NEW GENERATIONS OF PEOPLE ARE
GROWING UP WITH BECAUSE WE HAVE
BEEN SURROUNDED BY PROCESSED
FOOD.
OVER COMING THAT ALIENATION IS
NOT JUST FOR REFUGEES BUT FOR
EVERYONE.
WE HAVE BEEN DE SCHOOLED IN FOOD
FIGURING OUT THE WAYS OF
RESCHOOLING OURSELVES WHETHER
THROUGH ACTIVISM OR BLACK
PANTHERS OR COMMUNITY MARKET OR
WHETHER AT SCHOOL I THINK IS A
VITAL PART OF FIGHTING THE
CULTURAL DISPOSITION THAT IS
HAPPENING IN THE FOOD SYSTEM AS
WELL.
- TO ADD SOMETHING TO THAT, TOO,
THE ISSUE OF PEOPLE EARNING
ENOUGH MONEY TO AFFORD TO EAT
BETTER FOOD IS REALLY, REALLY
IMPORTANT.
THE HISTORY OF THE LAST 30, 40
YEARS IN AMERICA IS WE HAVE
DRIVEN DOWN THE PRICE OF FOOD IT
TOOK ABOUT 18 PERCENT OF
PEOPLE'S WAGES IN 1960.
NOW IT IS 9 PERCENT.
IT HAS FALLEN IN HALF.
YOU COULD ARGUE THAT'S A GREAT
ACHIEVEMENT.
BASICALLY THAT FALL IN PRICES
HAS SUBSIDIZED TO FALLEN WAGES.
THE WAGES HAVE SINCE THE 70'S
HAVE BEEN GOING DOWN.
ONE OF THE REASONS THAT IT WAS
ENDURABLE WAS THE FOOD WAS
GETTING CHEAPER, TOO.
WE ARE IN THE VICIOUS CIRCLE OF
CHEAP FOOD AND LOW WAGES.
SIMPLY BY CHANGING THE FOOD
SYSTEM YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS THE
WHOLE ECONOMY.
THAT'S WHY THE FOOD MOVEMENT HAS
GOTTEN SO INVOLVED IN THE LABOR
ISSUES, FARM LABOR, RESTAURANT
LABOR.
YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO
MAKE THE CHANGES TO THE FOOD
SYSTEM AND MAKE THE PRICES FOR
FOOD MORE HONEST, BECAUSE
BASICALLY CHEAP FOOD IS
DISHONESTLY PRICED IN MANY WAYS.
THERE ARE ALL OF THESE
EXTERNALITIES NOT REFLECTED IN
THE PRICE OF THE MCDONALD'S
BURGER.
YOU TRIED TO DO THIS ONCE.
DIDN'T YOU TRY TO FIGURE OUT
WHAT THE COST WAS OF THE
HAMBURGER?
>> $200 IN 1990 WAS THE STUDY.
- THAT $4 BURGER IS HEAVILY
SUBSIDIZED BY PEOPLE'S HEALTH
AND THE HEALTH OF THE LAND AND
THE WORKERS AND THE SYSTEM.
WHO CAN AFFORD A $200 BURGER?
IS IF YOU ARE GOING TO BRING THE
REAL COST INTO THE FOOD BY NOT
HAVING ANTIBIOTICS OR HORMONES
THE PRICE IS GOING TO GO UP AND
SO IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT AT
THE SAME TIME YOU MAKE THOSE
CHANGES YOU ARE MOVING TO
IMPROVE WAGES.
- ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR
MICHAEL AND RAJ?
IS RIGHT HERE.
- PERFECT.
I WAS CURIOUS TO HEAR WHAT YOUR
THOUGHTS ARE ABOUT HOW FOOD IS
HEAVILY TREATED IN THE FINANCIAL
MARKETS.
I KNOW CROPS ARE ONE OF THE MOST
HEAVILY TRADED IN THE FUTURES
MARKET.
I AM CURIOUS HOW THAT PLAYS A
ROLE IN VOLATILITY OF FOOD
PRICES.
I KNOW IT HAS GONE DOWN RECENTLY
BUT HOW DOES THAT GO IN
VOLATILITY.
THERE ARE A LOT OF FOOD
SHORTAGES AROUND THE WORLD, SO
HOW CAN WE EXPLAIN IT USING THE
FINANCIAL MARKET?
- YOU KNOW FINANCE MUCH BETTER
THAN I DO.
- WELL, LET'S SEPARATE THINGS
OUT.
FOOD SHORTAGES AT THE MOMENT IN
SO FAR AS THEY ARE HAPPENING
EVERY WHERE ARE ABOUT POVERTY.
YOU CAN HAVE PRICE VOLATILITY.
IN GENERAL THE REASON PEOPLE ARE
GOING HUNGRY ARE NOT IMMEDIATELY
ABOUT WALL STREET'S GREED.
WE WILL GET TO THAT.
IT IS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE POOR
AND THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO SECURE
ACCESS TO FOOD AROUND THEM.
THAT'S THE IDEA THAT IF YOU LOOK
AT EVERY MAJOR FAMINE SINCE THE
SECOND WORLD WAR THERE HAS
ALWAYS BEEN FOOD AROUND, BUT IT
HAS BEEN HELD BY SPECULATORS.
IT HAS BEEN HELD BY PEOPLE WHO
REASONABLY SEE THAT IF THEY --
IF IT IS A DOLLAR A BUSH EL THIS
WEEK, GOD KNOWS WHAT PEOPLE ARE
GOING TO PAY FOR THIS NEXT WEEK
WHEN THEY ARE REALLY HUNGRY.
THE RATIONALE THING IS TO HORDE
AND SPECULATE.
WHAT IS DIFFERENCE ABOUT THE
MODERN POST CLINTON FINANCIAL
REAGAN ERA IS THE WAY FIRST OF
ALL YOU CAN TRADE BEYOND THE
POSITION THAT YOU -- IT IS NOT
JUST ABOUT BUYING CONTRACTS THAT
EXIST.
NOW YOU CAN TAKE BETS ON THAT
AND DERIVATIVES OF THAT BEYOND
ACTUAL EXISTING FOOD.
MUCH MORE INTERESTING IS THE WAY
THAT YOU NOW HAVE COMMODITY
INDEX FUNDS THAT TIE WITH THE
COMMODITY OF THE PRICE OF FOOD
AND OIL.
WE HAVE INDEXES TO VOLATILITY IN
FOOD.
WHEN YOU HAVE THE OIL PRICE
GOING UP AND DOWN IT HAS AN
EFFECT OF THE POSITIONS PEOPLE
TAKE ON FOOD.
THAT EXPLAINS MUCH MORE
INTERESTINGLY WHY THE PRICE OF
FOOD AND THE PRICE OF OIL HAVE
TENDED TOWARDS EACH OTHER AND
TENDED TO MIRROR EACH OTHER IN
THE MARKETS SINCE THE 2000'S.
SO IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN
UNDERSTANDING ECONOMIST AT JNU
IN DELHI AND HER SECOND NAME IS
GHOSH, SHE WRITES FANTASTIC
STUFF ABOUT THIS.
FUTURES MARKETS EXIST BECAUSE WE
DON'T HAVE GOOD SOCIAL INSURANCE
IN FARMERS.
THE BEST WE HAVE COME UP WITH IS
THE FUTURE CONTRACTS TO ENSURE
THE BUYER IS GUARANTEED TO GET A
CERTAIN KIND OF COMMODITY.
THERE ARE OTHER WAYS IN WHICH WE
CAN SOCIALLY ENSURE THERE'S
GOING TO BE ENOUGH FOOD AROUND.
FUTURES CONTRACTS ARE THE WAY
THAT WE HAVE ENGINEERED.
WE HAVE SHRUNKEN OUR FOOD
STORAGE FACILITIES TO THE EXTENT
WE HAVE HANDED OUT THE SORT OF
FUTURE FOOD SECURITY TO WALL
STREET AND THAT IS A VERY
DANGEROUS THING.
- THE PRACTICE OF HAVING -- THE
COUNTRIES HAVING GRAIN RESERVES
WHICH IS COMMON FOR THE MOST OF
HISTORY, IT'S A VERY POWERFUL
AND INTUITIVE IDEA.
BUT WHEN PRICE -- AGRICULTURAL
PRICES ARE ALWAYS GOING UP AND
DOWN.
THERE ARE MANY, MANY FACTORS.
WHEN GRAIN PRICES ARE LOW, THE
GOVERNMENT WOULD BUY UP OR SOME
COLLECTION OF PEOPLE WOULD BUY
UP GRAIN, SUPPORTING THE PRICE
WHICH HELPS THE FARMERS,
BUILDING UP A RESERVE IF YOU
EVER HAVE A SHORTAGE, AND THEN
WHEN GRAIN PRICES GET TOO HIGH,
THE GOVERNMENT OR THIS OTHER
ENTITY HAS A VALVE AND THEY CAN
OPEN IT UP.
THEY CAN KEEP PRICES IN A RANGE
THAT IS GOOD FOR FARMERS AND IT
WAS THE BASIS FOR AGRICULTURAL
POLICIES UNTIL 70'S AND GOOD FOR
CONSUMERS BAD FOR SPECULATORS.
THEY DIDN'T WANT ANY ONE TO
ADJUST THAT VALVE.
- WELL, WE ARE VERY GRATEFUL FOR
BOTH OF YOU TO COME BACK AND
GUEST TEACH TONIGHT.
- (INAUDIBLE SPEAKING)
- COME BACK NEXT WEEK WE ARE
GOING TO TALK A LOT ABOUT ANIMAL
RIGHTS.
NEXT WEEK.
ON THAT NOTE --
- I SAID A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT.
- MAYBE JUST AS A PARTING WORD,
WHAT WORDS OF WISDOM OR
ENCOURAGEMENT COULD YOU OFFER
THIS CLASS GOING FORWARD WITH
THIS VERY INTERGENERATIONAL
ISSUE OR GENERATIONAL ISSUE THAT
WE HAVE BEFORE US.
- IT IS ON YOU GUYS.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S INSPIRING
OR NOT.
BUT THERE IS A LOT OF -- YOU ARE
HEARING THERE'S A LOT OF WORK TO
BE DONE.
THERE'S NOT ONE PASS.
IT REALLY IS WHERE IS YOUR
PASSION?
IS WHAT IS YOUR STRENGTH?
IS MAYBE YOU ARE A WRITER AND
YOU WANT TO BE AS RAJ WAS
TALKING ABOUT, THE STORY
TELLERS.
WE NEED STORY TELLERS.
WE NEED PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW TO
ORGANIZE AND PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW
TO THINK THROUGH POLICIES.
WE NEED PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW TO
LITIGATE.
THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS
TO GET INVOLVED.
THERE ARE ENORMOUS SATISFACTIONS
TO WORKING IN THIS MOVEMENT.
THE LEADING ONE OF WHICH IS WE
ARE SEEING PROGRESS.
WE ARE GOING IN THE RIGHT
DIRECTION.
I THINK IT'S REALLY ONE OF THE
POWERS OF THIS ISSUE IS THAT YOU
CAN SEE MODELS THAT ARE WORKING
ALL OVER THE WORLD.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE LAST 30
YEARS OR THE LAST 10 YEARS IS
PRETTY REMARKABLE.
WE CAN BUILD ON THOSE VIC TIER
RES.
I ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE WHAT YOU
CAN FROM THIS CLASS AND FIGURE
OUT HOW TO PUT IT INTO YOUR LIFE
AND POSSIBLY INTO YOUR WORK AS
WELL.
- THE TERM REVOLUTIONARY IS NOW
WHAT APPLE USES TO DESCRIBE
ITSELF.
AND THAT IS NOT REVOLUTIONARY.
REVOLUTIONARY IS DOING TO THE
EDGES, TO SEE WHAT THE RULES ARE
IN THIS SYSTEM AND BREAK THOSE
RULES.
IF YOU DON'T DO IT NO ONE ELSE
WILL.
SLUG OFF YOUR DEBTS, DON'T
BOTHER PAYING IT, BE REVOLUTION
NATURE RE.
THANK YOU.
(APPLAUSE)
- SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.
THANKS VERY MUCH.