Anatomy Of Story: The Complete Film Courage Interview with John Truby Video Lecture | Screenwriting: From Beginner to a Pro - Career Development

jaaaa in your lifetime have you seen
more movies or read more scripts and
it's either more important than the
other when it comes to a screenwriting
career I have seen so many movies and
read so many scripts that couldn't even
begin to count which one I've done more
of but they're both very important if
somebody wants to write screenplays
professionally and I say that for two
reasons first of all when it comes to
watching film that's really where I
learn my train as a writer and where I
developed all my techniques having to do
with how do you write a script that will
make a great film what I did was for
about a three-year period I went to
classic cinema and watched to you know
really high level films a day and took
notes in the dark and what I was looking
for were the patterns what were the
elements that were found in every great
film it would do such elements even
exist and I found that they did and from
that I was able to develop really the
centerpiece of what I talked about in
story which is the seven key steps of
every great story from that I also then
developed the more detailed 22 steps of
every great story these are steps in
every good script no matter how long no
matter how short no matter what medium
no matter what genre and these are
really the keys to successful
storytelling
now it's also important that writers
read a lot of scripts because it's only
by reading a lot of scripts that you get
a sense especially of the pacing that a
professional script has and you only see
that when you've read a lot but once
you've read a lot of them you see how
quickly does this story
established in the script because keep
in mind that the reader the person that
we need to get through in order to sell
that script the reader has read many
many scripts and their normal response
to a script is no so we have to break
that pattern in their mind now they form
that know in their head in the first ten
pages and so reading a lot of scripts
gives the writer a sense of what do I
have to have accomplished in those first
ten pages to keep the reader reading and
to give them a chance to say yes what's
the best script you've seen on screens
you
there's been some good films that have
come out in the summertime Hunger Games
and Avengers now in both cases we're
talking about you know super popular
films we're not we're not really talking
about Oscar winners here but they do
what they do extremely well and I like
to talk when I give my class I like to
talk about the story elements that are
found in hit films because writers don't
realize that in order to sell a script
they have to write the script that
Hollywood is looking to buy now to
understand what that is you have to
understand that what what Hollywood's
basic marketing requirement is which is
they are selling to a worldwide audience
now for years now it has not been the
u.s. audience that they're most
concerned about it's a worldwide
audience and it turns out that to sell
to a worldwide audience to have a
blockbuster know there are certain story
elements that are in those blockbuster
scripts and a lot of writers don't
realize this they think that well it's a
blockbuster film because it has movie
stars or because it has a lot of special
effects and so on well not so Hollywood
has not been a movie star based system
for at least a decade even though most
people think that it still is all about
the movie star no it's about the script
and it's about the story elements that
are in the script now there are certain
story elements that writers have to have
in their script to appeal to a worldwide
audience because we have to get beyond
those cultural differences those
national differences so the first thing
that you realize when you look at these
hit films is that they're almost always
based on the myth genre myth form is the
most popular story form in the world and
has been for many years and in the case
of both Hunger Games and the Avengers
we have myth
stories which had then been updated now
in the case of the Avengers
we had another really good story element
that they use which is the concept of
the dream team the all-stars that are
brought together and this is a very
popular story form when you combine that
with a myth based story you've got a big
hit on your hands and by the way that's
the main reason that Disney bought
Marvel Comics in the first place was to
get access to what I call the character
Bank which is a number of characters
that are already established have
worldwide appeal and which we can then
use in any number of films ad infinitum
in the case of The Hunger Games you have
a very good adaptation I think of a book
in the sense that once again we have
this myth foundation and in this
particular case the novelist is really
the person who brought all those myth
elements together very similar to the
way JK Rowling did in the Harry Potter
stories you get this element of the
young female archer that this is right
out of Greek mythology
Artemis Diana character you get the
William Tell story with her shooting the
arrow through the the Apple and so on
but she brought together all of these
classic myth elements and put them in a
story which he then modernized using a
science fiction form so again we get a
very powerful combination of myth and
science fiction that again made for a
worldwide hit
why is understanding genres so important
genre is really the key to understanding
screenwriting today and it comes from
what I call the first rule of Hollywood
which is that Hollywood doesn't buy some
movie stars directors writers it buys
and sells genres now Jean
is our story forms and more importantly
they are the all-stars of the story
world they are story forms that have
been told over decades centuries and in
some cases like with myth thousands of
years so they've already been worked out
and they've been worked out very very
great detail and they know exactly how
their characters work they know what
their things are they know how the plot
is going to work and so on so it's very
very tight now in order to sell to a
worldwide audience you have to use these
different genres because this this is
what the audience is really buying one
when an audience goes to see one of the
big summer blockbuster films they may
not know it in their head oh that's a
myth based film or that's an action film
or a combination of the two but they
know what they like and that's what's
underneath each one of those stories
Avengers Dark Knight so on these are all
just basic story forms basic Jean Rah's
with a unique skin placed on top so it's
very important first of all for the
writer to understand what genre is they
are working in it's also very important
for them to understand how to combine
their genres because almost every film
that gets made now is not a single genre
that was decades ago now almost every
film that gets made not just in
Hollywood but in worldwide cinema is a
combination of two three and sometimes
four genres now a lot of writers know
this what they don't know they usually
don't know is that combining genres is
very difficult because each genre has
its own hero its own opponent its own
desire line theme and so on so when you
start combining these typically you end
up with kale
you end up with so many story elements
that are unconnected that the script
doesn't work so it's very important to
understand how to put these genres
together one final point about this when
a writer is developing a story idea
right at the beginning of the writing
process they come up against the biggest
decision that they will have to make
which is what genre is this story the
biggest reason that writers fail at the
premise and by the way 99% of scripts
fail at the premise line right the very
first decision in the writing process
the biggest reason it fails is not that
it was wasn't a good idea it's that they
use the wrong genre to develop the idea
how would you rate the level of
storytelling coming out of Hollywood
today to really look at how storytelling
works in Hollywood today we really have
to see the different parts of Hollywood
because it is not a monolith in any way
for example in film we really have the
Hollywood mainstream filmmaking and we
have independent film and these are very
very different in terms of originality
and creativity that's found in
independent filmmaking Hollywood today
is not known for its originality it's
all about branding it's all about taking
these basic stories essentially myths
stories and trying to create a franchise
that can not only sell one film to
worldwide audience but multiple films
over many years which they then now will
remake very quickly I mean I was amazed
at the fact that we needed a new Spider
Man film right this is 10 years ago we
had the first one and just a few years
ago we had the third one in that first
series so the point is that
is again the marketing strategy that
Hollywood is using now what that means
is that for a writer working trying to
work in mainstream Hollywood filming
there are certain skills that they have
to know versus if they are going to
write for independent film for Hollywood
mainstream filmmaking for example again
the key emphasis up is on genre and
combining genres and knowing which John
rus' appeal to a worldwide audience for
example myth action thriller those sorts
of genres work with a worldwide audience
comedy much less so on the other hand if
a writer is working in independent film
and for many writers that is the way
they get their start then there is much
more emphasis on an original idea on
coming up with very unique quirky
characters often an emphasis on comedy
and line comedy ie comedy that is what
has very witty dialogue in other words
we have they work with very different
story structures now there's a third key
element when we talking about Hollywood
storytelling and that is television
because in my opinion television is the
best writing in the entertainment
business and when I give my class all
over the world what they what those
students are most interested in is not
how do I write a Hollywood mainstream
film it's how do I write a TV script
that's as good as the TV dramas coming
out of Hollywood the level of excellence
in in TV drama has never been higher and
the the quality of the craft of writing
in television is phenomenal the ability
of these writers to produce that quality
of work
that quickly week after week after week
if is frankly amazing to me I don't know
how they do it why is it so important to
approach a genre in a way that hasn't
been done before it goes back to that
first rule of Hollywood which is that
Hollywood marketing is based on selling
genres now that means that everyone who
has any sense of how Hollywood works now
knows that if you want to be in the game
you have to write a genre based story
now they're not that many different
major genres they're twelve major genres
that 99.9% of Hollywood films get made
from typically in combination of those
twelve now there's the problem which is
that if everybody is writing a genre
script and genres of course have
essentially have anywhere from 8 to 15
basic story beats that must be present
in that script if you are writing that
genre script properly if all you do is
write that genre in its normal way
you're going to write a script that
everybody else is writing that has no
chance to sell and this is why in my
class I'm constantly talking about these
are the beats of the genre which gets
you in the game who I've referred to it
as paying the dues hitting the beats of
the genre but then you got to go beyond
that which is you have to transcend the
genre you have to rise above it you have
to twist the genre in such a way that
the audience hasn't seen before which
means that you take those 8 to 15 basic
beats and for each one of them you do
them in a unique way that the audience
that surprises the audience and notice
that what you get there when you
transcend the genre is you get to have
your cake
- which is you give the audience all the
genre beads that they're coming to that
movie to see but you also surprising
them you're putting a different skin on
those bones in a way that they haven't
seen before so they get that double
pleasure and that is the only way in my
opinion that a writer can break through
from the crowd and have their scripts
stand out what is a popular film whose
script breaks all the screenwriting
rules and get it still a success and how
often does this happen and is this
something that bothers you in any way an
interesting question and to answer you
really have to go to that concept of
screenwriting rules and when I in my
anatomy of story class I talked about
all of the fundamental key elements that
have to be in your script for it to be a
great story and that's what we're really
talking about how do you tell a great
story in that sense there is no popular
film that I can tell you that breaks
those rules because we're talking about
two different concepts of what rule
means most people may think about the
rules of writing or they're really
talking about these very simple
conventional type of ideas about what
makes a good script which I'm not
interested in because to me that is
mechanical writing that's that's
paint-by-numbers script writing and that
simply won't work when I talk about the
rules of good story I'm talking about
these key elements way under the surface
that link a story together so that it
builds steadily from begin
- n-now at that level of story what I
call the grammar of drama the way a
story can build so that it has the
greatest impact on the audience there is
no way to write a great script that
doesn't hit those beats now here's
here's the qualifier which is that when
you transcend a jean when you use for
example advanced storytelling techniques
you come up with a story that appears to
break those basic rules but it doesn't
what it's doing is simply coming up with
characters and story structures that are
more complex they're not the simple
chronological beginning to the end type
of story and they might be have these
stories might have a main character who
is quote unlikable that's one of those
conventional rules that I mentioned that
you hear when you're first starting out
as a writer thing oh I have to have a
likeable hero well not so that that is
as false and so it's very important for
writers to understand what these quote
rules are that actually make for a great
story and these so-called conventional
rules that are not true they're
certainly not true now and they probably
never work how do we get a viewer to
care about a character you know we see
so many films with great production
value but there's a disconnect
we don't feel connected or even
interested in the characters so how is
this achieved one of the biggest
mistakes writers make is in how they
create character and they they've heard
this about you know we need to care
about the main character which is
absolutely true we do want to care about
that main character but how they go
about it is often wrong which is they
think that the way that you get an
audience to care about a character is
you make that character as detailed as
possible
meaning we give them as many character
traits as we can this is not the best
way to go because those tend to be very
superficial elements of a person and
that's not what makes an audience care
about a character it's interesting that
what makes an audience care about a
character really comes down to only two
things the weakness the fundamental
weakness of that character and the
characters goal in the story this is why
in my my sword classes it's always the
first thing I talk about and they are by
the way the first two steps of the seven
major story structure steps that I was
talking about earlier weakness need of
the character in other words what is
that personal problem inside that is
hurting the hero and such a fundamental
way that it's ruining their life it's
very deep and the entire story is going
to play out the solving of that problem
the way they're going to solve that
problem is by going after a particular
goal they don't know at the beginning
that by going after this goal they will
eventually deal with their great
internal weakness but if it's a good
story that's exactly how it will work
now I often talk about the what I
consider to be the most important
element of good writing the mark of a
really good storyteller which is that
plot comes from character now those are
big words and a lot of people hear that
well what it actually does that mean it
means a lot of things the most important
thing it means is that you create a goal
for your hero which will eventually
force that person to deal with their
deep weakness if you do that the plot
comes from the deep source of the
character and you've told a great story
so you've mentioned from prior
interviews that we should show weakness
and me
deficiency in our characters I'm
wondering why don't we like to watch
people that are sort of stronger than
ourselves well this is the common notion
particularly about action heroes the
notion was always in the past that when
you have an action hero or especially a
superhero that you want a character who
begins as a good person upstanding moral
Paragon and remains that way throughout
the entire story but about ten years ago
Hollywood discovered that that's not the
best way to tell a superhero story
that's one of those examples of
conventional wisdom that's not so what
we care about is to see a character
overcome a deep weakness now the
audience thinks that the story is all
about the hero achieving his goal right
because then we've got success and
that's important and in most stories the
hero will accomplish his goal by the end
of the story but that is not what the
audience is most interested in they
can't tell you this but we know from
lots of experience hundreds of years of
storytelling that the cave the real fact
is not does the hero accomplish the goal
but does the hero overcome the great
weakness because that's what makes us
care about that character we see them in
pain we see them in trouble right if
they're already successful if they're
already a good and in some cases a
perfect person where where do they go
right there's nothing for them to
overcome so that's why it's so important
that we show in the very opening pages
of our script the great internal
weakness of our character now we may
also want to give them qualities that
are likable qualities that the audience
can also hook on to but those are not
nearly as important as
establishing the weakness up front in
the story now the Goldberg author of
writing down the bones and other work
says if you're not afraid of the voices
inside of you you will not fear the
critics outside of you so it's the first
step in fearing criticism of our work
desensitizing ourselves to it I mean
should we put something out there let
the chips fall where they may get
knocked down get back up and then
strengthen that sort of what I call
criticism muscle so that doesn't hurt as
much each time I believe you know
everybody faces criticism and especially
more so the higher someone climbs in the
public's view so how do we get over that
hurdle I know so many brilliant people
that just are so locked in because of
the fear of criticism that they don't
put great work out there I've found over
many years of experience in working with
writers that the biggest mark of an
amateur is the inability to take
criticism now it's certainly
understandable why somebody would not
want to hear that criticism they have
put their heart and soul into that
script and in many ways what is in that
script is laying themselves bare for the
public and this is a scary thing and so
if somebody doesn't like your script
they don't like you but that is not the
way to become a very writer you have to
be able to listen to criticism because I
don't care how good a writer you are you
cannot write the perfect script you have
everybody has weaknesses in their
writing everybody has weaknesses in a
particular script so the trick is if I'm
going to improve that script I have to
be able to listen to outside criticism
now then the very important thing comes
into play which is who is giving you
that criticism right most people are not
capable of giving a writer useful
criticism either because they do not
have this
actual tools or because they are to to
personally connect to that writer right
if I give a family member my script what
kind of comments am I going to get back
right it's not going to be a they're
going to be afraid to be negative and be
they're not trained to give me the kind
of feedback that can actually make a
difference in my script now this
includes a lot of people that you know
in the executive suite that that are
going to be giving you feedback on a
script producers agents and so on
unfortunately a lot of them are not
trained to give a writer commentary that
can actually improve the script and a
lot of times they will give commentary
that is contradictory
they'll tell them the right to
fundamentally opposite things and the
writer cannot do them both right there
they're opposite so it's so important
that you not only be open to outside
criticism but that you're getting
criticism from people who know what
they're talking about because the only
criticism that actually works for you
that is not destructive is structural
criticism in other words looking at the
bones of the story and telling you what
is not working and I have found that
writers who get constructive criticism
structural criticism they love that
because it's not personal it's about the
craft and it's only the craft that can
make that script better so that's the
litmus test is is it structural
criticism absolutely absolutely and
unfortunately very few people are able
to give that kind of structural crazy
this is also why I always recommend to
writers form writer groups preferably
with the best writers you know because
then you're going to be talking the same
language you're going to be talking the
structure language
because any writer has been writing for
any length of time and is really
concerned about improving their craft
they know this they know that it's all
about destruction and so when you are in
a writers group within getting feedback
from other writers you know that you're
getting the stuff that really makes a
difference under the surface that the
average audience member the person
cannot give you say you're a viewer at
someone's premiere and you see a
screening and you honestly think that
the work has flaws what's the best thing
to do maybe it's not the most honest
thing to do you smile and tell them
great job shake their hand do you admit
in a gentle way that there were some
things that were confused about what's
the best policy well the the typical
response when someone has seen your your
film and they they don't like it or they
don't like parts of it is because they
don't want to come right up and say that
they say film was very interesting and
that that you know that's that's the
code word interesting means it wasn't
very good um but the real fact is that
that at that point the game's over the
process is already over so what good is
it to say oh I had a problem with this
and this and this now you got to
distinguish that from for example
screenings with audiences on a film that
isn't completed yet you know that this
sort of thing is it typically has a very
you know bad name it's oh well these you
know it's a marketing screening where
we're going to try to get a sense from
the audience who what do they know about
filmmaking but you will find fences are
very uncertain and certain things are
very good at giving you feedback now
they won't be able to put it in
structural terms oh you didn't establish
the weakness need of your character in
the opening pages of your film but if
you are able to translate there
sponses you can often learn a great deal
from them they can keep them on Isis
acetyl hot films and they may not be
able to speak in the language of the
writer of the filmmaker but they know
what is not working for them and so if
you as the writer or filmmaker can
listen and be open to that I have found
time and again getting really good
feedback from from an audience is the
normal audience out there that was very
helpful because it goes back to the old
concept of the costume the customer is
always right
right you you can't if you're writing a
script you can't you know an end and a
reader says all this didn't work for me
you can't say well let me explain you
what I was trying to do if you if they
didn't like it it's your fault it's not
their fault so it's very important to be
open to to any kind of criticism and if
you know how listen you can often find
out some very good things about a script
or a film that you did not know what are
the things to listen for well typically
when an audience is giving you feedback
it's it's a lot of it is about the pace
a lot of it is about it's all some
version of it was slow here I didn't
like that character I didn't like that
scene so on and so forth what they're
really talking about is that the
sequencing of the scenes the building of
the story is not right it's not working
for them but last year was was part of a
screening in a film that I worked on and
we found from the audience that they
were having a lot of problems especially
with the final third of the film and we
realized
we we had for various reasons we had a
big hole about 2/3 of the way in the
film and we thought we needed those
beats those scenes because to tell the
story but the audience showed us that we
did not need those and so what we did
was we basically cut out about five or
six scenes that we thought had to be in
there for the detailing for the building
of the character over the course the
story turned out we could pull out all
six of those scenes and boom which we
give us the drive into the final part of
the story and didn't cause a problem at
all and instead it gave us the pacing
that we needed to bring the audience
along all the way to the end of the
story so typically that's it's some
version of that because there's a
feeling that the audience has they again
they're not they're not trained to
specifically know why a story is not
building they just know it's not working
for me and you think that's because we
misjudged the audience sort of level of
intuition or interest in the story and
as filmmakers and writers were too close
to our work well we're always too close
to our work you absolutely you know if
you've been working on the script all
those iterations if you all the way
through the filmmaking process and so on
then you're you're always going to be
too close to and again that's why
getting that outside feedback is so
valuable but but yes the the audience
has a kind of knowledge that is very
useful if we will listen to them and
respect them this by the way is one
reason I believe why like TV drama is
the best writing and filmmaking in the
Hollywood entertainment business today
which is you look at the the best shows
they are not speaking down to an
audience that they have exactly the
opposite view toward the audience which
is the audience is smarter
than we think they are and the audience
is smarter than we are and again this
goes against the old conventional wisdom
that you've got a you know you've got to
make things understandable so everybody
out there will get it well we found out
over the last 10 to 20 years
interestingly enough I think that the
the biggest thing that flipped it was
Seinfeld because you there you had four
main characters who were unlikable these
these people in many ways were very
unpleasant people and this just
completely ran counter to the
conventional wisdom of mainstream
popular storytelling in this case
television right which has the biggest
popular audience there is of any medium
and all of a sudden we realize wait a
minute that in fact it works better if
they're not very likable if they have
problems if they have weaknesses and so
on it finally got into film as well and
as I mentioned earlier even with
superhero stories which were the the end
of you know there were the last type of
storytelling where you would have put
weaknesses in your main character but
now even there we found that the most
popular of these superhero films are
characters with severe character flaws
and it turns out that that makes them
more popular to the audience not less
popular but as I say the the basic
attitude of the the best shows today are
that the audience is very sharp then
they can handle extremely complex
storytelling forms and it actually is
makes it more popular not less so so
they say that writing is rewriting but
what does this really mean I mean how
much time should we spend on a first
draft and then how it's time to be spend
rewriting this is a great question
because rewriting is one of the most
misunderstood of all of the major
writing steps partly because of that
famous line that you just stayed
writing is rewriting there is no
question of that if you want to write a
great piece of storytelling you're going
to have to do a lot of rewriting but
that concept that writing is rewriting
often makes writers make a huge mistake
right at the beginning which is they
think that my first draft just get it on
paper right to overcome a whatever
writing block just get it down on paper
don't try to be perfect right because
that just will just stop you from
writing entirely right okay so they get
the script down on paper and then they
think okay I'll fix any mistakes in the
rewrite except that they don't fix the
mistakes in the rewrite what people
don't realize is that first draft turns
into concrete when you've actually
written it out and it's on paper in many
ways in your mind it solidifies in such
a way that it is then very difficult to
break that apart and to make the key
structural changes that need to be made
this is why and a lot writers have shot
when I tell them this for most scripts
the second draft is worse than the first
draft and it just gets worse from there
and that is because of the approach that
they take to the script in the first
place because when you write that first
draft some fundamental things are going
to be embedded in that script this is
why it is so important that writers do a
lot of prep work before writing the
first draft starting all the way back
with the premise I always tell writers
it is so important to take a tremendous
amount of time exploring your premise
line ticking weeks to look at just one
sentence right my one line one sentence
log line because you can find a lot of
the inherent structural problems in your
script that you're going to encounter
right there in the first
now if that also means we do a lot of
prep work in creating our characters
figuring out our structure learning the
end point of the story before we begin
writing so on and so forth that doesn't
mean that you're going to again try to
make that first draft perfect what it
does mean is that you're going to be
looking at what are the embedded
structural problems in this story and
try to make the fixes before you
actually write the draft and most of
those fixes will occur if you do your
prep work you can get a very good story
in the scene list the scene sequence now
this is in many ways but a lot of type
of writers don't realize what an
important step this is in the writing
process the seamless the scene sequence
because this is the last place before
you actually write scenes to see the
architecture of your story for example I
do a lot of story consulting work and my
preference is don't give me a full
script
give me your scene sequence I can spot
90% of your problems and come up with
the solutions right from the scene
sequence because if I see it as it is a
first draft of a script I've got all
that dialogue I've got a lot of
undergrowth that is hiding the bones of
the story and it's keeping me from
seeing what is not working and how could
be fix so this is why it's so important
to do your craft homework before writing
the first draft and in that first draft
it will then make the rewriting process
so much simple and it will guarantee
that your second draft is better than
your first draft
one more point about rewriting because
it is so misunderstood most writers
don't understand that
rewriting is a set of tools just like
plot character and soul and one of the
key tools about rewriting is the order
that you rewrite for example most
writers the first thing they fix when
they're doing a rewrite is the dialogue
it's the last thing you should touch
when I work with a writer on a script we
don't talk about dialogue for the until
the third or fourth draft because it's
all about getting the story right and
that's what you want to focus focus on
in your rewriting your the steps of
finding the structural problems and the
first step in finding the structural
problems of your script is go back to
the desire line of your story make sure
that you have a good strong spine you
have a desire line that will track and
drive this story from beginning to end
so it's just like building a house
absolutely why most people fail at
screenwriting I think most people fail
at screenwriting because it's the most
difficult craft in the world you know
people talk about all I want to be a
director directing is very difficult
challenging job but it doesn't compare
to writing craft of storytelling most
complex craft in the world takes a
lifetime commitment to master it now a
lot of writers either don't realize that
it's going to take a lifetime of
commitment or they don't want to face a
lifetime of commitment that's a lot of
work and that's a lot of time most
writers are looking for the magic bullet
and which is why I talk about this in my
class all the time most writers start
off with this three act structure way of
looking at storytelling which is was
designed for beginners
does not work at the professional up the
reason it's so popular is because it is
a kind of magic bullet says it's not
that hard well we'd all like to think
that writing a successful screenplay can
be done with a few simple steps you know
paint-by-numbers approach unfortunately
it doesn't work you have to be able to
put in work and you have to also realize
that the level training the type of
train that's required to get to a level
of excellence and that means literally
hundreds of craft techniques that have
to be mastered I will always tell
writers in my class you know plot is the
most underestimated of all the major
writing skills most writers know the
importance of a good main character they
know what the importance of lean dialog
and so on when it comes to plot they
think well I'll just figure that out as
I go and of course that never happens
because it turns out that plot has more
techniques that must be mastered to
becoming working professional then all
of the other major writing skills
combined if you don't know what those
techniques are you have really no chance
of working at that level so that's why I
say that it's so important to writers to
get not just get trained but at the
right kind of training so that they are
working at the professional level and
one of the what I think one of the key
hallmarks of what I've tried to to teach
in all my classes is that professionally
professional writers use fundamentally
different techniques than all of the
writers if you don't know what those
professional techniques are you cannot
play in that game you cannot compete at
that level do you think - a lot of
people don't realize that their
temperament is not suited I mean you're
spending a lot of time alone you're
having to be sort of self generating and
maybe people don't realize how
what that is you're absolutely right I I
consider the psychological element the
biggest obstacle to writer success
because the difficulty of what you just
said the difficulty of facing the page
by yourself being in that room alone
trying to meet that challenge day in and
day out is very difficult on the human
mind and writers first of all don't
realize what it's going to take
psychologically at first and then when
they get into it and they try to deal
with that
they they really don't have the tools of
the support system to be able to be in
it for the long haul I often tell
writers the the people who work
professional are the people who are
still standing everybody else was they
were knocked out because for various
reason leading at the right training but
but most often it's they cannot handle
the psychological difficulty of what it
takes to write at the professional level
meaning writing alone facing rejection
again and again over many years and so
on into you have mastered the craft at
the at the level that somebody says hey
you're a good writer this is a good
script I'm going to hire you so it's the
people who a commit to the craft and B
who are still standing who are there
after many years so that finally
somebody says yeah you've done the work
you're actually pretty good because keep
in mind most people don't know a good
story they don't you know they just know
I like it or I didn't like it but
they're not trained as writers again
it's the most complex craft in the world
so part of the difficult psychology is
how do you get over the fact that you're
getting rejected from people who don't
know what you do that's very tough
figs so which do you think is more
important stubbornness or a teflon
personality where rejection just doesn't
define who you are
I would say neither of those I would say
both of those are dependent upon a
previous requirement which is me
maintaining an openness to learning the
craft I will often get professional
writers take my class and when I talk to
them what I always find is these people
have no ego at least no ego that that is
coming across that I can sit because
they're professional writers so you
would think well they think I already
know this stuff but they don't they
don't take that attitude yes they're
extremely well-trained if they get to
the level of professional writer they're
extremely well-trained but these are
people who are open to learning more and
I find that is the most important
quality for being a successful writer
the being the willingness to learn from
anywhere anyone so that your repertoire
your your arsenal your set of tools is
constantly growing that in turn gives
you the confidence to say that person
didn't like my script but I know that it
is based on these craft elements that
make for a good story so whether they
liked it or not that doesn't affect me I
know it's a good story
that's where you get the foundation of
confidence that you need to get through
those tough psychological moments so
almost as if an attorney or a doctor
needs sort of mandatory continuing
education artists somehow think maybe
there
into that like I've already learned what
I need to learn most do most do and it's
a huge problem you know the when I give
classes the most common question is all
about how do I sell my script
they wouldn't know there's an
implication in that question which is I
already know how to write a good script
the only thing I'm not able to do is
sell it not so ninety-nine percent of
writers you know they will always talk
in Hollywood about it's all about the
connections all about who you know it's
so overrated
99% of writers when they finally meet
somebody who is a useful connection they
don't have the story tools to make that
connection payoff then we have the craft
foundation so it's all about you know
this this ability to treat writing as a
profession and part of that is I can
never know enough about how this craft
works and partly that's because every
story is different
I talked to professional writer friends
and we're always amazed we think okay
it's going to get easier now it doesn't
it gets harder because the better you
get the higher you set the bar for
yourself on your script
Evaristo cracking a story is always hard
no matter how much you know because
every story is totally unique
yeah there are certain elements that you
can use that you can hang your hat on
you can you can get it a way into the
story and so on but everyone is tough so
that's why this is having this
professional approach to being a writer
being a storyteller it is so important
it's the only thing that eight makes you
successful but B gets you through
a quote from Julia Cameron of the
artists way and many other incredible
works is uh it takes constant vigilance
not to slip into negativity or simple
apathy it takes courage to believe that
over a given period of time we are
getting better and not sliding into
decline so how does someone who has been
possibly in industry for a long time
whether success or not strengthen this
stance you know seems like for those who
have maybe not made it quote-unquote
there's maybe a depression and a
bitterness that success will never come
and then for those possibly that have
made it there's sometimes a feeling of
being trapped and dictating by dictated
by the controls of money and not
creativity so how do we stay at the
craft of writing and keep it fresh this
element that feeling the longer that you
are in the business of right that you
start to get trapped in the lack of
creativity is a serious problem this is
an industry and it's all about it's
either got to make money or we don't
work and so there's there's constantly
this pressure to write the commercial
script and it is one of the worst things
that you can bulb fall prey to because
what you then do is you start trying to
predict what will be commercial and that
is impossible I don't care how long
you've been doing it you can't do it
even if you were to come up with a
somewhat close prediction of what is
going to be hot by the time you wrote
that script gotten through all the
machinations that are required for the
business it would that moment of being
hot is arguable it's probably two years
past so you can't do it this is why it
is so important for writers no matter
how successful that
in fact the more successful you are the
more important this is to constantly be
challenging own creativity yes you do
have to have certain elements for
example genre elements that will appeal
to a mass audience but you don't have to
write a generic script you don't have to
write a paint-by-numbers machine script
that you think will be commercial that's
the quickest way to fail and it's also
the quickest way to get down on yourself
psychologically and not want to write
anymore
it's one reason what a lot of writers
give up but the creativity is your
responsibility there is no reason that
every script you write can't be
something that is personally very
meaningful to you and that the
techniques that you use to write that
script or have a number of unique
creative elements in so it's strictly up
to you but again that goes back to also
knowing the craft knowing that a big
part of the craft of writing is not just
knowing the beats of a particular genre
story but also forcing yourself to hit
those beats in a creative way that you
or the rest of the audience has never
seen before so I put the onus onto the
writer there and I think that it's a
false and an easy step that we take to
say oh it's their fault it's the
business you know they make us write
this way no they don't it's it's only if
you buy into that mythology that you
write that way but remember I always
tell writers this you can have a lot
more ideas in this life than you ever
have time to write
full-length script or not so always
write a story that you both care about
and that you think will have an appeal
to a larger audience it can always be
done if your creativity is sort of in a
slump and you don't feel challenged by
it
what are some possibly even physical
activities that you can do I know Julia
camera and always suggest going on
writer states or artist states she
called them just doing something that
visually stimulates you what are some of
the things you recommend to people that
maybe they're successful they have
something they're doing it's that's
paying them well but they're stifled and
they want to challenge that creativity
you know it it's a very interesting
question and I think it connects to a
larger issue of writer's block right
block of course is a big problem that
writers every writer faces at some time
or another
I think it's a big misconception that
writer's block comes from some kind of a
psychological element that we face that
oh I'm just not in a creative place
right now you know I've been working on
the story for too long whatever the
reason that we come up with I find
almost every time writer's block comes
from not understanding the true
structure of the story you're telling
and but when I say true structure I mean
not only is it hitting those key story
beats that I refer to a little earlier
but is it hitting the story beats that
are unique and right for that story and
almost always it comes down to that main
character because the main character
drives the story and the key to having a
truly creative script truly creative
story unique from anything anybody's
ever seen before including the writer is
that you
main character because that's the person
that you know this is a unique
individual and that's the unique
individual that will drive the story so
whenever I see a writer who is running
into creativity problems running into
writer's block of some sort I always say
go back to your main character find out
what is unique about that person that
you haven't thought of so far and find
out what is unique about that character
that you are passionate about why do you
want to tell this person's story once
you focus in on that character and the
unfolding of that character over the
course of the story then you will get
back in touch with your real creativity
and I find almost every time that that
will break the writer's block and break
it very quickly should a screenwriter
really be thinking about selling that
first screenplay we don't we want to be
thinking about it not soon I mean you're
going to be you can be thinking about
giving your first Oscar speech right
that that comes with the territory the
the question is do you let that affect
the process that you run now it's always
important to have a sense of writing for
an audience
in other words I'm not just writing for
myself I'm not just writing for my
immediate family I want to write a
script that a lot of people want to see
but it's very tricky in terms of what
steps you take based on that as they
mentioned earlier it's not about
predicting a trend it's not about
predicting what it's going to be hot
with an audience it's once you determine
certain basic elements that oh this can
be a commercial story idea then it's all
about forgetting that and getting to
what I call the gold of the idea getting
down into what is totally unique about
that story idea cute mind the biggest
reason that script failed mess at 99
scripts presenter scripts fail at the
premise line when we've only written one
sentence and the biggest reason that
they fail is it wasn't an original idea
in the first place yeah the writers make
all kinds of mistakes when it comes to
developing that idea but if you don't
start off with the original idea in the
first place it's not going to be an
original script and although it has no
interest in that right why are why are
they going to pay the kind of money that
it's paid for scripts for something that
any number of 100,000 people could write
so and what most writers don't realize
is because it's so difficult to dig into
an ID and find out what's truly original
about it most writers come up with a
premise that is a copy of a movie they
saw six months ago or it's a copy of two
movies that they put together that they
saw six months ago right that's that
doesn't make it original so it's very
important that once you have that idea
that you explore it very deeply find out
what is original about it and if the
idea is not original it's important that
you not write it now this is counter to
what most writers do most writers when
they come up with an idea they
immediately start writing script pages
it's one of the clearest marks of an
amateur and what happens of course is
they get 15 20 pages in they write
themselves into a dead end they just
ruined another idea now over years and
years of experience that I've had as a
writer story consultant I have found
that most ideas should not be written
the scripts and it's exactly the
opposite of when I start when I started
I thought there isn't a story idea
I can't make work as a script but I
can't make work as a full-length story
over years of experience I've found just
the opposite of the case that the real
value of exploring your premise taking
time to make sure its original taking
time to find out what the structural
problems are inherent to the idea the
big value of that comes from finding out
that nine out of ten ideas that you have
should not be written because the single
biggest choice that a writer makes in
the entire writing process what story do
it right not how do I write it yeah
there's a lot of decisions that go into
that but the most important is that you
use what story to are right in the first
place most stories are so full of
structural problems that embedded in the
idea they will not be solved I don't
care how good you are at story you will
not solve those problems so why take
months and months and a lot of pain to
write that as a full-length script just
to find out oh I didn't solve those
structural problems after writing the
script and I knew what they were ready
to be getting right at the premise idea
so don't build the house without the
plans exactly okay so that's the test as
if your idea is viable going back to
that premise line going back on that
premise line and it's also again it goes
back to crap one of the things I spent a
lot of time in Miami story masterclass
is
techniques for breaking down the premise
there are actual techniques that you use
to see is this a good story idea it's
not just oh I'm excited about that idea
no it's about okay how do I find out how
this is going to work as a hundred two
hundred and twenty page script right
that that takes technique to be able to
jump
head again we only have one line here I
need to be able to figure out how this
is going to work as a hundred two
hundred and twenty page crap so that
requires a number of techniques giving
example you look at that premise idea
and the first thing you look for is
there a desire line embedded in this
idea that can track 100 pages that can
extend for honored pages most premise
ideas don't have that another thing you
look at is there a main opponent in this
idea who can fight with the hero over
that length of time and can create
ongoing conflict for the entire story
most premise ideas don't have that e so
this is again going back to having the
tools in order to do your job and at the
same time save you save yourself a lot
of pain and wasted writing that kills
most writers I mean you write a few of
those scripts in a row where you go
through all that trouble to write the
script only to find out that the script
is not going to work no matter what you
do you're going to be writing for very
long right it's one of the biggest
readers and right excuse me one of the
biggest reasons writers give up what if
you have a lot of tools in place but you
don't know your ending or does that mean
your tools are in place you use your
tools were not in place that is one of
the most important things that you want
to figure out not necessarily write the
premise line but pretty close which is
what is the structural end point of my
story and a lot of writers ask me this
oh look you know I like to be more
creative just determine to use as though
figuring out the end point of the
structure is uncreated in fact the
opposite is the case the better you are
in structure the more creative the
script because what structure does is it
allows you to know what will work and
what won't work so that you know all I
can take this rule
cool creative twist here because I've
got the structural scratch scaffolding
underneath it to support it or I don't
have it right so that's why knowing that
end point is one of the I'd say five
most important techniques in all of
story keep in mind that that every story
is a journey of learning that the hero
takes over the course of that story and
in any journey you take you cannot take
the first step unless you know where
you're going to otherwise you're going
to walk around in circles same is true
in the writing process and just because
you figure out the structural end point
of your story doesn't mean that you
can't change that down the road it just
means that it is going to give you a
focus point for every other structure
step that that story is going to take
why are fake allies or fake foes and
stories so important these characters
are what I call the in-between
characters of a story because we have on
one side the hero and the heroes allies
on the other side we have the main
opponent and any secondary opponents
that you may have in the story right
these are clear characters in opposition
but one of the keys to plot if not the
key to plug is surprise reveal we want
to not only surprise the hero over the
course of the story we want to surprise
the audience that's essentially what
plot is now the question is well why do
we get reveals how do we get surprises
we get them a lot of different ways but
one of the most important ways is with
these in-between characters character
who appears to be an ally but is really
an opponent somebody who appears to be
an opponent
every time the audience sees that
somebody they thought was one it turns
out to be another that's a review that's
a plot beat and that's where the
audience goes oh yes that was really
great thank you that's the power plot
and these characters are one of the main
ways that we get these surprises for the
audience now
to see the value of this character take
a look at the Harry Potter stories and
of course the most obvious example of
this is Snape who switches back and
forth between a parent ally and a parent
opponent for seven books right that's
how useful this character this type of
character is because every time he
switches we surprise the audience she
was able to sustain that source of plot
for seven full books this is one of the
ways that we know that she's a master
storytellers just that technical long
she of course many many others that she
was used but that's one of the most
important what is the double reversal
double reversal is a very advanced
technique where that by the way is not
seeing most stories double reversal
occurs when not only the hero but the
main opponent learn something at the end
now when it's done properly and by the
way the place where we see this
technique used most often is in love
stories because love stories this is a
genre that is designed from the very
beginning to end with a double reversal
where both hero and lover learn and
change at the end as we have two people
having character change not
just one now when it's done properly
worse like this we have a hero who
learns from the opponent in growth we
have an opponent who learns from the
hero and grows and it's the blending of
the best of both characters that is then
the author's view of the right way to
live it is that's the author's theme
what they're trying to get across to the
audience but they're doing it through
two characters instead of just one I say
it's a very advanced technique you don't
usually see it because in order to have
this technique you have to have an
opponent who is capable of learning and
unfortunately most opponents or not and
that's a problem of craft where they did
not design the opponent in such a way to
make them more than just a villain Frank
Darabont is quoted by go into the story
calm where he discusses quote the whole
industry of we can make you a
screenwriter and he says I have
ambivalent feelings because ultimately
even though there is some benefit to be
gained by those things I stress the word
some benefit minimal benefit ultimately
you know what it boils down to you're
sitting at your desk all by yourself for
years trying to figure out your craft
and applying the effort necessary and
that's what nobody wants to hear
everybody wants to hear I can teach you
a three-act structure I can give you a
formula and you'll be selling these
screenplays within six months BS and
what's funny about it these guys in the
business of being screenwriting gurus
they don't even write screenplays I do
think there are some benefits in these
classes but I don't think people should
be misled into thinking it's a Bo and an
end-all and that we're going to walk out
a screenwriter everything is self
applied effort in life everything you
don't learn anything easily how was your
respect I could agree with the guy more
I mean he's absolutely right for at
least 25 years I had been railing
against the fact of that the normal way
that screen
writing is taught this 3x structure that
he mentions is a bunch of bunk it
doesn't exist it's false and it's all
about that magic bullet that I was
talking about earlier that says hey
everybody can do this it's not that hard
all you have to know is that every
script has three acts with two or three
plot points it's bull it's not true and
yet an entire industry has been built on
this and it's something that makes me
especially angry because what it's doing
is it's taking advantage of writers and
I love writers I hate to see them taken
advantage of and especially because of
the fact that almost every writer at
least when they start out before they
become a professional if they were to
get to that level they have no money
they have you know they're certainly not
making any income from their writing
it's a very tough life and I don't like
to see those people taken advantage of
now where I would maybe disagree with
him slightly is in the sense of that not
everybody is doing what he's talking
about you know just as not all writers
are the same not everybody who teaches
the craft of story is the same and it's
I think important not to tart everybody
with the same brush one of the things
that I have done from the very beginning
is be very clear about what I am doing
there with those students which is I'm
not teaching them the art of writing
nobody can teach that but I think what
you can do and what I try to do is teach
all these craft elements these
techniques that I think are very useful
to people and that has always been the
hallmark of all of my classes which is
be practical if it isn't useful then
it's worthless to talk about the big
problem with most of these writing
classes and books is that either they
talk about three-act structure which is
the Emperor's New Clothes doesn't exist
and will not work the professional level
or you you get talk about writing
concepts it's though so ethereal has to
be useless when you're actually facing
the blank page where I think comments
like that really not necessarily fail
but they don't go far
these people like Frank Darabont don't
admit or tell you that they have quite a
background of to craft technique that
they know now I don't know where they
learned it a lot of people they have
natural storytelling ability and then
through the the practice of writing they
have developed these techniques but
those techniques are real they do exist
and what has always been the purpose of
my class my my main and Adam story
masterclass is from the very beginning
when I put it together is I wanted to
give writers all the techniques that I
thought were essential that they would
know in order to have a chance to write
a great story and I believe that from
the very beginning I have kept that
promise and I had given that to people I
think that's why the response to my
classes has been so strong over the
years is that people leave there they
leave with a lot at their fingertips
they have actual practical tools that
will work and can make their story
better and I've got you know stacks of
letters from people including one we
just sent out yesterday from a novel is
very successful novelist written nine
novel novels just sent me a letter
saying thanks for the class that I took
in New York a few months ago because I
just got through the first round
Sun Dance and she said thank you thank
you thank you changed my life I mean I
love getting I love to hear because it's
for me it's all about making it work
because that's really that that's this
writing is so important for people it is
who they are deep down and so if you can
help them turn that desire that passion
into practical techniques that can get
it on the page it's very fulfilling is
very satisfying
how is the game changed for
screenwriters to break into the business
say from 20 years prior or is everything
still the same the fundamentals are
still the same I would say that the
fundamentals are to say yeah there are
some specific differences but
fundamentally it has always been quote
impossible to break in as a screenwriter
it's because how many films are made a
year mainstream Hollywood make maybe 300
500 films a year and it's going down
it's actually since the recession of oh
wait it's gotten worse one of the
specific ways that it has changed for
the worse is the fact that since that
time development money has essentially
disappeared nobody wants to develop
anymore now used to be that a writer
could make a living could sustain
themselves and therefore continue to
practice the craft and get better
through just development work they have
a good strip maybe it gets optioned a
few times it's a calling card for them
to get work for hire that's now much
more difficult
one of the things that I always have a
big problem is these pitch festivals
because they promise people oh you're
going to pitch to these executives and
maybe of course everybody thinks the
other that would be me
get the deal well this is absurd it
doesn't happen since oh wait not even
the top screenwriters are getting deals
off of pitches because there's no
development money it's all about it's
either on the page in a script or it
doesn't exist right oh that sounds like
a great idea let me see the script and
especially if you're not one of the 20
or so top words and screenwriters you're
not going to get a deal with the pitch
they don't even know if you can write a
script or not so these unfortunately are
some of the negatives that have become
more negative over the years now on the
other side and again something that
really hasn't changed it's all about is
it on the page one of the advantage that
we have is writers / actors is that we
don't have to what dishing in person
right they don't have to reject us
personally right it can be on the page I
can be writing on Mars if it's on the
page I don't care where you're from I
don't care what you look like right if
it's on the page and it's a good script
of one and this is another reason why
it's so important to prove yourself on
the page to prove that you've got the
craft and I always tell writers if you
have a script that is rejected it isn't
necessarily rejected because the quality
of writing wasn't there most of the time
it is rejected because that producer did
simply didn't like that story idea
didn't feel that it was a commercial
therefore what they wanted to try to
sell you can't get as the writer you
can't have any control over that the
only thing you have control over is the
quality of writing on the page if you do
your job and master the craft so that
you get that quality on the page at some
point you will break through I true I
believe that 20 years ago I believe it
now and again for most writers they
think that they've done that craft work
when they really haven't so should
people set aside a fund for pitchfest or
avoid them entirely I personally think
that it's a waste of money
and I would have went them entirely the
one possible advantage that you can get
there is that someone will who has heard
your pitch will agree to read the script
but again it's very important for
writers to understand when you go to a
pitch festival it's not about selling
that idea you will not sell that idea
it's all about getting the door open so
that they will read your script because
most people when they go to these Phish
festivals don't have an agent so they
can't get send their script in but that
means that before you go to any pitch
festival you better have a great script
that you have written so that when the
person says I like that idea I'd like to
see what you have that you have a script
to give them that will show off your
work as a writer because the only thing
that matters is a completed script with
the qualities on a page should someone
be worried that someone might steal
their idea no that's the most overrated
fear of writers it it nobody cares about
that it's too much work to go from an
idea to a really good script for anybody
now do ideas get stolen
they do but most of the time they're
ideas that are in the air that you know
people grab that and different people
come up with them at different times but
again this emphasis on ideas and the
idea that you could sell an idea now
I'll just be an idea man now I'll make a
really nice living selling story ideas
is total nonsense